Table of Contents
Folate Vs. Folic Acid | Risks of excessive folic acid intake | Folate food sources
If I asked you which of these vitamins was found naturally in food, folate or folic acid, would you know the answer? If not, you’re in good company. Medical professionals, nutrition experts, and health practitioners frequently mix up the two, simply because the terms are often used interchangeably.
Many health professionals would even argue that folate and folic acid are essentially the same nutrient. While folic acid is often considered to be a supplemental form of folate, there is an important distinction between these two different compounds. For women past childbearing age, and for men in general, excessive doses of the synthetic form of this nutrient are not necessary, and may even be harmful.
The difference between folate and folic acid?
Folate is a general term for a group of water soluble b-vitamins, and is also known as B9. Folic acid refers to the oxidized synthetic compound used in dietary supplements and food fortification, whereas folate refers to the various tetrahydrofolate derivatives naturally found in food.
The form of folate that can enter the main folate metabolic cycle is tetrahydrofolate (THF). (2) Unlike natural folates, which are metabolized to THF in the mucosa of the small intestine, folic acid undergoes initial reduction and methylation in the liver, where conversion to the THF form requires dihydrofolate reductase.
Several studies have reported the presence of unmetabolized folic acid in the blood following the consumption of folic acid supplements or fortified foods. (3) Human exposure to folic acid was non-existent until its chemical synthesis in 1943, and was introduced as a mandatory food fortification in 1998. (4) Food fortification was deemed mandatory due to overwhelming evidence for the protective effect of folic acid supplementation before conception and during early pregnancy on the development of neural tube defects (NTD) in newborns.
Risks associated with excessive folic acid intake
While the incidence of NTDs in the United States been significantly reduced since folic acid fortification began, there has been concern about the safety of chronic intake of high levels of folic acid from fortified foods, beverages and dietary supplements. (5) One of the major risks associated with excessive intake of folic acid is the development of cancer. (6) In patients with ischemic heart disease in Norway, where there is no folic acid fortification of foods, treatment with folic acid plus vitamin B12 was associated with increased cancer outcomes and all-cause mortality. In the United States, Canada, and Chile, the institution of a folic acid supplementation program was associated with an increased prevalence of colon cancer. (7, 8) A randomized control trial found that that daily supplementation with 1 mg of folic acid was associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. (9)
Researchers have hypothesized that the excessive consumption of folic acid in fortified foods may be directly related to the increase in cancer rates. Excess folic acid may stimulate the growth of established neoplasms, which can eventually lead to cancer. The presence of unmetabolized folic acid in the blood is associated with decreased natural killer cytotoxicity. (10) Since natural killer cells play a role in tumor cell destruction, this would suggest another way in which excess folic acid might promote existing premalignant and malignant lesions.
In one study, consumption of folic acid in excess of 400 micrograms per day among older adults resulted in significantly faster rate of cognitive decline than supplement nonusers. (11) Another study found a higher prevalence of both anemia and cognitive impairment in association with high folic acid intake in older adults with a low vitamin B12 status. (12) As vitamin B12 deficiency is a common problem for many older adults, these studies suggest that high folic acid intake could cause serious cognitive consequences in the elderly.
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Folate from natural food sources is best
Folate aids the complete development of red blood cells, reduces levels of homocysteine in the blood, and supports nervous system function. It is well known for its role in preventing neural tube defects in newborns, so women of childbearing age must be sure to have an adequate intake prior to and during pregnancy.
Excellent sources of dietary folate include vegetables such as romaine lettuce, spinach, asparagus, turnip greens, mustard greens, parsley, collard greens, broccoli, cauliflower, beets, and lentils. (13) Not surprisingly, some of the best food sources of folate are calf’s liver and chicken liver.
You can supplement with folate if your dietary intake is inadequate. Look for products that contain the Metfolin brand, or list “5-methyltetrahydrofolate” or “5-MTHF” on the label. Avoid products that say “folic acid” on the label. Make sure to check your multivitamin because most multis contain folic acid and not folate.
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The Adapt Naturals Core Plus bundle features two products that contain folate. Bio-Avail Multi, a multivitamin/multimineral and phytonutrient blend, contains 680 mcg of the most active form of folate, methyltetrahydrofolate. Bio-Avail Organ contains a blend of five organ meats (live, kidney, heart, pancreas, and spleen), which are among the highest sources of folate in the diet.
Women planning on becoming pregnant should consume between 800 and 1200 mcg of folate per day for several months before the start of pregnancy. Unless you’re consuming chicken or calf’s liver and substantial amounts of leafy greens on a regular basis, it’s difficult to obtain this amount from diet alone. If you’re pregnant or trying to get pregnant, I recommend supplementing with 600-800 mcg of folate per day, depending on your dietary intake. Solgar
is a good brand, but there are several others that typically use 5-MTHF including Designs for Health, Thorne, Metabolic Maintenance and Pure Encapsulations.
All other people, such as men and older women, should be able to get plenty of folate in a diet with adequate vegetable consumption, and do not need to supplement.
The basic idea is to eliminate Folic acid from the diet. The US government requires it to be added to all grain based foods, so it’s tough to do! Folic acid blocks your ability to use Folate. Folate is good, Folic acid is bad. You can supplement your folate intake by taking Optimized Folate or Methylfolate (same thing, different name). 1000 mcg = 1 mg. Start out small 800-1000 mcg. It is safe to take, even if you don’t know if you have a genetic deficiency. Too much might make you jittery so proceed with care. You should also add B-12 to your diet if you think you might be folate deficient. Unlike folic acid, the bi-products of folate are not toxic to the body.
Well, that’s easy: stop eating grains. Humans shouldn’t be eating grains anyway.
That way, you’re not eating foods that are pre-packaged, hence, fall under specific legislation that requires addatives, either as preservatives, or as nutrients that are commonly deficient in diets.
The funny thing is, grains (and dairy – but that’s another subject) actually make us deficient. Whole grains have phytates that render minerals less absorbable. Refined grains have less minerals and vitamins, but they also have less phytates, and a lower lectin unit count.
So there are two problems that we encounter with grains of any type: they sap vital nutrients from your diet, and they have a high agglutinin (lectin) unit count. This is enough for me to find any nutrients that I could get from grains in a source of REAL food.
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http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/truth-about-eating-grains.aspx
http://www.rodalenews.com/nutrient-deficiency
http://www.ctds.info/fiberfoods.html
I am a 24 year old female with pretty sever anxiety and depression. Is it safe to use B12 and Folinic Acid even though I haven’t been checked for any gene mutation?
I’m wondering the same thing!
Oh my gosh, me too! I’m 24, pretty severe anxiety, problems with depression, pms and overall sense of stress even though I have pretty much nothing to stress about. I’m getting 5-MTHF today and I hope it will help. Here’s a recommended read: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/sa-lifestyle/how-a-vitamin-cured-my-anxiety-elisa-blacks-story-of-lifelong-struggle-and-new-hope-for-the-future/story-fnizi7vf-1227251037624
Taking vitamin B12 can be helpful in most case, however if there are certain parasites and bacteria activities I intestine, the pathogens use B12 to grow more and create more problem. Taking B12 right after a good bowel and liver cleansing protocol is the best option.
Dr Terry Whals recommends using nutritional yeast.
Looking at the supplement facts, they all say “folic acid”.
I assume that’s not methlyfolate.
Any opinions on the safety or otherwise of the folic acid in nutritional yeast or on nutrtional yeast overall?
I believe nutritional yeast is fortified but brewer’s yeast (though not as tasty) has the naturally occurring B vitamins including natural folate.
Dr. Fuhrman’s nutritional yeast says that it contains no synthetic folid acid.
This would be huge. The petitioners forgot to mention that rice is also fortified. So, this affects everyone.
—-
Sign the White House Petition to End Mandatory Flour Fortification with Folic Acid linked to Cancer
http://1.usa.gov/1wlovWv
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Hello and thanks for the post. I hope you can help me. My multi says that it has folate (as folic acid). Does that mean the folate source is folic acid? If so I may change to one that has Folate (as Quatrefolic®‡ [6S]-5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt). I have 2 different MTHFR mutations. Thanks for your help. Im still learning about MTHFR and wow, there is a LOT of information to digest and filter through.
There is a lot of confusion due to articles like this which pick and chose research and recommend brands. Folic Acid has higher absorption over folate. Synthetics are used for higher doses and absorption as most people are deficient. If you are using “whole food” tablets it is better to invest in real food.
Hi Sandy,
Just because folic acid may be better absorbed (which I would question w/out seeing a study comparing the various forms), doesn’t mean it’s utilized once it’s absorbed.
Again, in my case, testing showed high levels of “folic acid”, but very low levels of the active folates.
I want to start by saying I do not know if I have the mutation connected to folic acid metabolism. I am a woman in my late 40s, good health. But after several years of thinning hair, I found a web site where a nutritionist was advocating mega-dosing folic acid 800 mcg tablets (like up to 10 of these, twice daily) to combat hair loss. She reasoned that some people are just genetically pre-dispositioned not to process folic acid as well; that they cannot utilize it as efficiently as others; and so it tends to run in families, i.e. all the women in a family line tend toward thinning hair for instance. She cited two cases, a mother and a young (child) daughter who got on the protocol and were able to restore their hair to normal fullness.
After communications with the nutritionist, I tried this protocol. I was a mess. It seemed to make my hair grow faster but not fuller, as it kept falling; it created havoc with my menstrual cycle and symptoms, plus I had strange tingling sensations in my limbs and issues with my heart rhythm. Scared, I stopped the folic acid protocol and the symptoms went away.
A couple years later, I learned about MTHFR and methylfolate. I still had not been tested for the mutation but decided to try a methylfolate supplement (solgar, 800 mcg). I had 4 children in five years and breastfed for a decade solid and I questioned whether I had depleted stores of a number of things in my body. (Choline was another one I was depleted in.) Within just weeks of taking methylfolate (with no ill effects), I had dramatically less hair fall when I brushed or showered. Now my eyebrows are coming back. I am otherwise a healthy person, but I think I must have been depleted, AND unable to process folate as efficiently as others, or even as efficiently as I did when I was younger, perhaps (just a theory).
I may be misunderstanding the science of it, as some of you are much more eloquent and well-versed on this, but I wanted to share my experience of a health symptom (thinning hair) and the difference in my experiences with folic acid vs methylfolate. The nutritionist was onto something when she made the connection between folate and thinning hair for some people; but it harmed me to take so much folic acid, and helped my health issue to take a comparatively modest dose of methylfolate. I want to share my experience with the nutritionist but as it turns out, she is a little defensive about anyone suggesting deviations from her protocol.
If you have the COMT mutation, you won’t be able to tolerate too many methyl groups, such as methyl folate and methylB12. I also have the compound heterozygous MTHFR so I was on a lot of 5mthf. This caused anxiety for me along with the methylB12. Once I switched to hydroxylB12 and decreased my folate to just 400 mcg a day, my anxiety went away.
Elizabeth, thank you so much for your comment. I am going to tell my daughter, who I KNOW is deficient in a lot of areas ( she practically lives on ‘drive thru’, and is losing her hair.
Hi Carmen,
Diet definitely can play a role as well. But for me, I had an excellent, organic diet and was low on protein which I had read can be a reason for thinning hair. So I tried adding more protein. I tried Viviscal which made my hair grow fast but did not thicken it/stop it from falling out, and broke out in a month-long itchy rash. I tried myriad other less expensive hair vitamins or hair/skin/nail supplements. I added methionine. I tried choline/inositol. Pumpkin seed oil. Burdock oil. Quercetin. All of these options had people who testified to good results, so they apparently help some. But none of these were my issues. I tried biotin. That made my lashes grow full again, but didn’t reach my hair or brows. The choline/inositol made my nails grow like crazy and I have weak, thin nails. I tried taking 1-2 tbls blackstrap molasses daily, supposing perhaps that I could be anemic, as I have had that issue throughout my entire life to some degree, since childhood. Folate, (NOT folic acid) stopped the hair fall in its tracks; and my brows are growing back. Before that, I thought the amount I lost in the shower was normal. Now I realize it wasn’t, and my hair was probably shedding before it went through its full cycle. I don’t know whether I was deficient in folate from depleted stores after pregnancies and breastfeeding, OR if as we age, we assimilate certain nutrients less effectively. In the case of biotin, I have the lashes I had a child/teen now, but without the biotin, my lashes return to a much sparser look. As I am in perimenopause, we are told to anticipate some thinning of hair etc but I question whether we just don’t absorb the nutrients at age 40 as we did at age 10 or 20. Just my thoughts. I tried approaching my hair issue from a protein angle, amino acid angle, B vitamins angle, nettles and other herbs angle, “special marine complex garbage for $40 a month” angle, etc. After three years of trying things that worked for others and not for me, I figured out what my body needed. I think it made my first cycle (follicular phase) considerably longer than normal, but the next cycle it was a lovely normal cycle, no PMS. It may or may not be your daughter’s problem, but it is worth a try!
Hi, you may want to have a full iron panel run, if you haven’t already. You can be iron deficient while Hgb and Hct are still in the normal range, at least for quite a while. My hair loss struggles were solved when a dermatologist checked my ferritin, % saturation, etc. and told me we needed to get my ferritin at 70 or above. He said the hair loss might stop when we brought it back to 50 or so, but that in his experience healthy regrowth occurs at 70 or above. My hair is once again thick, healthy, and grows fast! Gluten sensitivities can also aggravate hair loss in some. Best of luck.
After talking with a pharmacists about this, he did some research on prenatals (or multivitamins without folic acid in general) and reported to me that a prescription called NEEVO does not contain folic acid!! But a Folate supplement would need to be taken for baby growth or even if not pregnant due to MTHFR. I’m just as frustrated as most of you all with uncertainty.
I am currently taking New Chapter’s “Perfect Prenatal” multivitamin. I have taken this for almost one year (2 pills/day) but now that I am pregnant I take the full dose of 3 pills/day.
This multivitamin has 600 mcg of folate. I emailed the company asking if their folate contains 5-methyltetrahydrofolate and they said that it contains “cultured folate, not folic acid.” They use folic acid as a culturing catalyst for their folate. It is cultured using organic yeast and live probiotics.
This article doesn’t state anything about cultured folate. Is this a good/safe form of folate?
Here’s a link to the vitamin.
http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Perfect-Prenatal-Multivitamin-270-Tablets/23615
I have celiac disease. I Am deficient in folate. I’ve tried pills and injections. All hurt my stomach. I Ali cannot tolerate B12. Thoughts?
an own vitamin brand from Whole Foods store was great, they moved store thou, so I was searching for equivalent. I just bought Mega Food One Daily Multivitamins. From what I read now it’s a better choice then the artificial vitamins supplement. Btw I take vitamins now bcs Im on a crazy cabbage diet!
Thank you for a very insightful article. I was recently told I had MTHFR. I was put on Deplin, a very expensive form of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. I was unaware I could find this o.t.c and for far less money. This was discovered because I had treatment resistant depression. This along with quality high dose fish-oils worked wonders. Just in case anybody reading is suffering the way I did, please find a psych. doctor who tests for this. I was never told to stay away from folic acid, and I was just thinking if its not good for people without this genetic error, what’s it doing to people with it? And you answered that question beautifully. My daughter was born with a significant speech delay, and they couldn’t rule out autism for what felt like a very long few months. We were finally given the news that she is not autistic, and she is flourishing now that she had speech therapy. I now know that this may have been caused by the MTHFR. I have to ask, why aren’t OB/GYN docs. testing for this as part of their obstetric work ups?! That’s more of a rant than expecting an answer, it angers me that its not being done as well as forcing folic acid on us. My real question is can I take a B-complex vitamin with folate from lemon peels? Its hard to find a B-complex 100 without folic acid, so I’m hoping folate derived from lemon peels is ok.
I also have MTHFR. I was diagnosed 10 years ago after having multiple miscarriages, as the having high homocysteine levels and being unable to retain any B or Folate from my food, my body took it as a reason to miscarry. Your daughter can be tested for it at some point, the next time they do a blood draw for any reason. I would guess with her showing signs of autism that she does have a version of it. Taking B6, B12 and Folate are all you need to do to keep your homocysteine levels down if you have MTHFR. This is a life long supplement program you must keep to keep you levels down. I work with a naturopath, many doctors don’t understand MTHFR. She has me taking 5-MTHF 1mg daily and Basic B Complex, both fre from Thorne Research. Recently had my Homocycsteine levels checked and they are doing great. There are links to dementia,autism, stroke, heart attack, miscarriage all due to MTHFR. Partially because your small blood vessels tend to clot if you have it. Good luck. Take your vitamins, then forget you have it.
Colleen, thanks for your very helpful comments here. I just wanted to add my 2 cents about staying on B6, which I took for years, along with other B’s and, of course, folic acid. I didn’t even know this could happen, but I developed B6 toxicity, which led to neuropathy. Neuropathy is no fun, so if you can avoid it, please do. Just mentioning this in hopes that the awareness will prevent others from making the same mistake.
Blessings to you and your dear ones!
I have MTHFR and you can take wright supplements , you have website MTHFR.net and Dr.Lynch he specialized in MTHFR .you will find whole protocol for it. Garden for Life is the company ,they have multivitamin with folate not folic acid.
Garden of Life is priced at about triple the profit margin of much better companies. If you buy from them you are way overpaying and giving them about three times more than other good companies for what you get.
Which other supplant companies do you suggest?
I’ve seen many quality science-based companies noted by people here.
I suggest that people avoid the so-called “whole-food” vitamin companies. There’s little if any good science involved and none of them give good value for the dollar.
They’re just good marketers.
Kerri Rivera at AutismOne 2014 – Healing the Symptoms Known as Autism
Think my comments got buried…
How about The Honest Company 1 A Day Prenatal for pregnant or nursing Mothers?
I love Pure Encapsulations, but can’t handle 6 pills a day when pregnant. 1-3 max. Is there a good option for me? Not sure if it matters, but I am 5′, 90#
Eclectic Institute makes a great prenatal multi called”Vita Natal”
You still have to take 6 a day, but it is well worth and far less expensive then Pure Encapulations.
Doctors brands are way over priced and no better then off the shelf brands. They use the same ingredients, but set the minimum pricing so you think you’re getting a superior product because it costs more.
We have tried several, Thorne Research, Ortho Molecular, Pure and Vital Nutrients, but we always go back to Eclectics Vital Force.
You can check them out at iherb.com. They have a link to Eclectics website. Copy and paste the below link
http://www.iherb.com/Eclectic-Institute-Vita-Natal-Multi-Vitamin-Mineral-Formula-180-Tablets/15335
Rocksmith, I checked the vitamin you suggested and it contains Folic Acid.
It also has a lot of Vitamin A as palmitate which I read can cause birth defects in high doses.
I am trying to avoid Palmitate for pregnancy and Folic Acid for a MTHFR condition.
I also have Hashimoto and it is not clear if I can take iodine.
Also trying to avoid iron as much as possible as it can accumulate and I think that 18mg every day is already too much if one eats meats.
Starting to be difficult to find prenatals that meet all the criteria, I haven’t found a single one yet!
If anyone has any suggestion, I will appreciate it!
I take Garden of Life’s Kind Organics Prenatal Multi. It’s 3 pills a day and is a little pricey but everything in it is from a natural food source instead of synthetic. It also has ginger and peppermint to help with morning sickness!
Of course I think it stands to reason that if your body is smaller than average it makes sense to take less of any supplement than what is recommended for the average consumer.
For those of you who are stating that taking methylfolate made you sick – Isn’t it true that when starting methylfolate, it allows your body to start detoxing and it allows your immune system to start fighting? This can be the cause for not feeling well on this supplement. If you move too quickly you won’t feel well.
For me, I had to ramp up very slowly – first opening a capsule and taking a tiny amount, and now I’m up to about 3400 mg a day. I had to do the same thing with the methylb12’s and other methylation supporting vitamins. I actually had to back down on my dose a few times throughout the ramping process because I didn’t feel well, and when I stabilized, I was able to go back upwards. Ultimately I was able to get to a substantial dose.
Everywhere that I read about methylation disorders, I see that it’s important to avoid any supplements with non-methylized folate. I personally will stick to the methylfolate.
For those feeling sick after taking methylfolate it’s important to understand the pathways and how they can get backed up if other necessary nutrients are missing. Dr. Ben Lynch has written a great article about this at his blog at mthfr.net It really helps break down how and why there can be issues and what to work in at each point.
Just wanted to let you know that nutreince – the first patented multivitamin with Anti-competition technology also has 5-MTHF. And we welcome you to come and try our formulation. You can learn more at abcsofsupplementation dot com.
I’ve been curious by the repeated replies posted by Mr. Mooney urging the use of folic acid. So, I clicked on his handle and was directed to a website that states at the top his association with his family’s nutritional supplement company. Using folic acid in supplements is typically a cheaper route for the manufacturer, unless people rebel against folic acid and want the more expensive forms of folate in their supplements. Just coincidence or interesting connection?
Hi I’m the original poster of the question. Just wanted to say that I’m doing well on this vitamin. My homocysteine is normal and I don’t have the irritability that I get with the methylfolate. I don’t eat any fortified foods and I also get a lot of folate through natural foods. My energy is decent and I plan to keep taking the vitamin.
Also, Mr. Mooney has explained in previous posts that his family makes this product. However, how I found it was my functional medicine doctor carries this product and recommended that I try it because I was having side effects with the methyl folate.
I am assuming I’ll have s problem with the methylated form but can’t find the name of the dorm / brand you allude to. Could you please share it – again? Thanks!
To lidcmd, it is no coincidence that I disclose that my family makes vitamin in the first part of my personal website’s front page, because I am fully transparent.
Further, you will notice that each of my statements are accompanied by either citations to the published medical literature or a reference to the statements of long-time nutritional authority and traditional naturopath David Getoff, who is on the board of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, one of the most credible nutritional research groups in the world.
As to my family business’s multivitamins containing folic acid, I am the formulator of products as of two years ago.
Because I thought that it doesn’t matter – based on reading and my own experience with methylfolate – I was going to change our formulas to use methyl-folate just so that we don’t have to deal with the “noise” about folic acid.
However, I called to ask David Getoff what he thought of changing our form of folate to methylfolate and he replied, “Absolutely do not change to methylfolate.”
He then went on to tell me about numerous of his patients that, like I, test positive for one or both of the MTHFR genes, and their doctor prescribed methylfolate to them and they had terrible effects, from extreme fatigue to acne-like skin breakouts – a long list that is elucidated in detail at Methylfolate Side Effects. MTHFRnet. March I, 2012. http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/
Getoff works with patients all day long, and is of supreme ethics, so he tells the truth and rips the false face of many notions that people and even some healthcare professionals take for gospel.
So, when I have something that is beyond the scope of published studies, which I read all day long – when I need to hear the experience of a brilliant healthcare practitioner – Getoff is one of the sources I contact.
And anyone can imagine that not having to deal with the notion that methylfolate is better would make the company’s job easier.
However, we cannot, in good conscience bend to the illusions that consumers are subject to, when we might harm someone who has the negative effects that methylfolate causes some people, and then have that consumer likely not know what’s causing it.
And we will not create formulas that require warnings on the labels.
So, once again, lidcmd. I have provided third party references, via Getoff and MTHFR.net and am consistently being fully transparent.
It is up to the reader to decide whether there is reason to be skeptical of what I say, as you inferred that I have a conflict of interest, I have clarified everything that I can. Now, please decide for yourself.
And, to clear up lidcmd’s misunderstanding about costs – from a manufacturing perspective the cost difference between methylfolate and folic acid is very small anymore. The cost of methylfolate has come down tremendously as it gained popularity and increased sales volume caused a price decrease. And we are talking about micrograms, tiny amounts, so the cost difference is unimportant.
I have a question and would appreciate help if anyone knows the answer. After years of bad health and even seeing alternative practitioners and spending a ton of money I just figured out myself that I have low B-12. I am currently in a wheelchair and have “classic” symptoms and yet……….no one figured it out. I have MTHFR issues and so I would like to know………my doctor is pushing the methyl B-12 shots and I am not sure if it is going to help me or overmethylate me. Is it just the methylfolate that could be an issue or is it methyl B-12 also? I need to hurry up and get the shots before I have permanent neurological problems. There is also hydoxocobalamin which my doctor claims will not give the same results. They have agreed to leave out the methylfolate but are really pushing the methyl B-12.
Hello Cathy.
I don’t know that one can be “overmethylated,” as methyl groups are important for healthy metabolism and most people have too little methylation. I have not heard of having too much methylation.
The simple answer to anyone with a B12 deficiency is to try taking the sublingual methyl-B12.
There are many companies that make it, but I usually buy Jarrow’s product – http://jarrow.com/product/75/Methyl_B-12.
It’s easy to take, so I quit using the injectable stuff that I got my doctor to prescribe. I just put one sublingual tablet under my tongue and let it melt, usually once a day, but I am not worried about being deficient, as I take loads of vitamins.
The Jarrow product that I linked above to is 5,000 mcg per tablet, so it loads us up with B12, and in all recorded medical literature there has never been anyone that has OD’s on vitamin B12. It’s safer than milk.
The multi I take has 1,000 mcg of the cyanocobalamin form of B12, and with all the blood testing that I do there has never been evidence of B12 deficiency. So, I am getting enough from food (animal products) and supplements. I mostly eat fish, which doesn’t give us as much as red meat, but I don’t have much taste for red meat anymore.
However, I am taking 850 mg of glucophage (Metformin) twice a day because it is one of the best anti-aging compounds. However, glucophage inhibits B12 absorption.
So, to cover my bases I include sublingual methyl-B12.
I take high doses of B-vitamins, and have loads of energy at 61, so I’m not a candidate that might need the other B-vitamins to be co-enzymated.
But if I had health problems and had the MTHFR issues I would consider getting some of the co-enzymated forms of some of the B-vitamins or the special forms – and see if they help.
Vitamin B1 – benfotiamine
Vitamin B6 – pyridoxal-5-phosphate
Or one easy way to go is to get the sublingual co-enzymated B-complex made by Source Naturals, which contains several of the B-vitamins in their co-enzymated forms, while providing folic acid, not methylfolate.
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1327/
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/library/download/101456/
However, if I had a B12 deficiency I would take both the Source Naturals co-enzymated B-complex and the Jarrow sublingual B12, too.
Hello Cathy,
However, if I had the problems you have I would seek out a traditional naturopath, like those that are involved with Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation or othe qualified alternative practitioner to guide me. The conventional medical people will miss many things that would help you without the toxicities that generally come from conventional Western medicine. The enlightened alternative practitioner could very well help solve your issues.
Michael,
I’m not sure exactly where to start, but I will try to keep this short, because I’m very ill, and don’t have a lot of ‘energy’ to expound on the many, many errors in your arguments on this page.
You’ve never heard of overmethylation, yet elsewhere on this page you talk about patients describing the effects of various amounts of methylfolate. Now that may not always be from overmethylation — it could be due to methyl-trapping as a result of not getting enough B12 — but in many cases the effects from excess methylfolate can be due to overmethylation.
You said “if I had health problems and had the MTHFR issues I would consider getting some of the co-enzymated forms of some of the B-vitamins or the special forms – and see if they help.”
But I’m guessing from your other comments that that would not include methylfolate, which is the ultimate coenzymated (broken-down) form of folate?
And FYI, benfotiamine a man-made synthetic form of thiamine — it is not the coenzymated form. Thiamin diphosphate, also called thiamin pyrophosphate or caraboxylase, is the active, coenzyme form of vitamin B-1.
I will answer Kelly after business quiets down. Kelly’s reply is worthwhile. However, he has several misunderstandings and errors, which I will answer when I have a moment,.
Well, Kelly, one learns something new every day, if we’re lucky and there’s still more to learn.
Reading up on overmethylation, it seems like there may be some confusion whether overmethylation is causing deleterious effects or the effects are some kind of detox reaction. David Getoff said that his experience is that these effects are mostly detox reactions, usually because the liver and/or kidney aren’t working optimally. When he supports liver and kidney and starts a patient with MTHFR problems on a very small dose of methylfolate, gradually raising it over a period of months, he can usually get them to be able to take a full dose of methylfolate eventually.
As to your comment about me saying that benfotiamine was a co-enzymated form of B1, I did not say that. My statement put benfotiamine under “special forms” of B-vitamins.
Thanks for your reply Michael.
I would again urge you to contact Dr. Lynch, or Dr. Neil Nathan for the most accurate information regarding methylation and the dangers or risks of “folic acid”.
Getoff is correct to the extent that some of these reactions may be due to detoxification, but it’s my understanding that this ‘detox’ is finally occuring, because the proper forms of folate are finally being used.
Anyway, best of luck, and thanks again for your reply.
Will do, Kelly. More is to be revealed! I’ll be back to comment once I’ve established more clarity about this. And thank you!
@Michael Mooney
You said: “However, I am taking 850 mg of glucophage (Metformin) twice a day because it is one of the best anti-aging compounds. However, glucophage inhibits B12 absorption. ”
But Metformin works as anti-folate, see:
Metabolomic fingerprint reveals that metformin impairs one-carbon metabolism in a manner similar to the antifolate class of chemotherapy drugs
Would you care to comment?
I will re-visit this after the 10th. I’m on tight deadlines until then.
Blessings.
It could be empowering if you were to try some alternative options.
Thorne methylcobalamin is well a tolerated form of active B-12. It can be purchased at Pure Formulas.com Have you considered nutritional testing (alternative practitioner) and natural supplements from Thorne or Standard Process?
Thyroid issues (hypothyroidism) may be resolved with prolamine iodine (Standard Process) Your doctor is paid to perform procedures and prescribe medicine. Supplements are expensive and the cost adds up but what is your health worth to you?
Mr. Mooney
I have double mutation of the MTHFR C677T. This came to light when I was taking some Male Fertility pills that my wife was recommended. That had a lot of Folic acid. I had a neurological attack. I had all my blood work done and neurological test but with no explanation for the symptoms I was having. Short time later, I learned about MTHFR and had then learned about my mutations. I started taking Methylated form of B9 & B12 and initially over methylated making me kind of strung out. But I stuck with it and cut my dosage in half. I have not felt better in my entire life. My mood, energy, and just since of well being. From my understanding the doctors that prescribe Methyl folate start them at extreme dosage level. I take 400mcg and that has made a world of difference for me.
for what its worth
Hello ccarr; Thank you so much for sharing that. It is some hopeful, positive news for those of us who aren’t feeling well. Very happy that that worked out for you. Really shows how different we all are and that we kind of have to experiment (maybe boldly?) to see what finally works!
Good post, ccarr.
David Getoff told me that he will sometimes take someone that has MTHFR problems and give them a very low dose of methylfolate and gradually increase it over time. I have to ask him why he does that with some patients and not others.
But your post reminded me of him saying that.
Good post!
In general it’s because their methylation hasn’t been working for decades, because of their genetic polymorphisms (not mutations), and because folic acid has built up in their tissues, blocking the active forms of folate.
If anyone wants to prove that folic acid builds up in those with MTHFR or other polymorphisms, they can get a blood test called the Methylation Pathways Panel.
My results showed high levels of the synthetic folic acid, with very low levels of folinic and methylfolate, despite years, even decades of eating a high-vegetable diet.
This test also shows that excess folic acid isn’t just excreted in the urine as they believed 20+ years ago. Just like B12 and other B vitamins, just because they’re water soluble, doesn’t mean they don’t build up.
Hi Kelly,
How did you reduce your excess folic acid please?
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this informative post Mr. Mooney. It makes me feel validated. I’m one of those that got a horrendous bad reaction to methylfolate-with a low dose BTW.
I believe that there are ppl that benefit from it, but it seems that there are many like myself that get terrible side effects from it. Thanks!!!!!
lidcmd; I have a problem when I take methyfolate and am finding it more and more difficult to find what I want without methylfolate in it. I am happy that Michael Mooney’s company doesn’t cave just because of comments with no real basis. If you have studies to cite please do it so we can see the evidence. I would appreciate that so that I have needed information. Just because someone, ANYONE, comments on here it doesn’t mean they have an agenda.
Cathy,
I too appreciate Mooney’s transparency, but that doesn’t make him right.
Note that Chris Kresser, who’s site he’s allowing all of us to discuss these differences, recommends other companies brands in his article. He’s not trying to sell anyone anything.
Now of course I can’t say that Michael is trying to sell us his products, but it is interesting that he keeps posting. Perhaps it’s just a defensive thing since he’s selling the inactive, synthetic form of folate?
Again, if you’re having trouble tolerating the methylfolate, that may suggest that your methylation has been dysfunctional for a long time, and you need to start with very low doses.
Dr. Ben Lynch knows a lot more about this than any of us. His information (on Youtube) or at the mthfr.net site (that Michael Mooney and others linked to above) is the most up to date online.
And all of his information is backed up by clinical research, literally thousands of studies.
I’m homozygous for c677t and have been doing extensive reading about the best supplementation protocols. For the most part, people with this mutation seem to be extremely anti-folic acid with little scientific evidence to back up their beliefs. What I typically hear is that you shouldn’t take folic acid because it “blocks folate receptors”. In researching this, it seems to be true, at least theoretically.
According to the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (March 2008 vol. 87 no. 3 517-533), “Folic acid has a substantially higher bioavailability than do natural folates, being rapidly absorbed across the intestine. Even in countries without mandatory fortification, some members of the population, including infants, have detectable unmetabolized folic acid in their blood, probably because of the voluntary fortification of foods or intake of supplements containing folic acid….
Theoretically, folic acid could interfere with the metabolism, cellular transport, and regulatory functions of the natural folates that occur in the body by competing with the reduced forms for binding with enzymes, carrier proteins, and binding proteins. For example, the folate receptor has a higher affinity for folic acid than for methyl-THF—the main form of folate that occurs in the blood. The transport of folates into the brain is carried out by the folate receptor in the choroid plexus, and so folic acid in the blood might inhibit the transport of methyl-THF into the brain.”
Any thoughts on this? Is excess folic acid floating around in our blood something we actually need to worry about in terms of our bodies getting enough of the active form of folate? Or do we excrete it fast enough that this isn’t really a concern?
I asked world nutrition authority, David Getoff, a Board Member of the Price-Pottinger Nutrition Foundation, and a long-term practicing traditional naturopath (TN’s don’t treat people with drugs, while some “naturopaths” do.) what happens to the unmetabolized folic acid and he said, “It just gets excreted, like any other B-vitamin.” He sees no danger for those of us that have the genetic mutations using folic acid. However, he warned me that he has had numerous patients who tested positive for the genetic defect, whose doctor put them on 5-methyl-folate and they had tremendous side-effects, including extreme fatigue, acne-like skin breakouts, and more. All of these things have been documented at http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/. Getoff told me that he believes these problems are caused by a cleansing reaction and that when he takes these people off methyl-folate the problems disappear. He said that he will very gradually introduce them to very low doses of folate and over a long period of time, bring them through gradually acclimating their bodies to being able to use supplemental folate, but it takes time. He, like other orthomolecular healthcare practitioners, said that since those of us with the genetic defect DO convert folic acid in our bodies, just less than people without the genetic defect. (One study, which I cited in an earlier post showed that we convert at between 30 and 60% as well as “normies.” This is why practitioners, like Getoff have their patients taking 1,000 mcg of folic acid, a higher, but safe, dose. We will convert that to the equivalent of 300 – 600 mcg of folate AND this is just a supplement to what we should be getting eating a healthy diet, where the majority of our folate intake SHOULD come from. So this, controversy about whether folic acid is ok for us is, frankly bordering on illogical hysteria. I saw this based on reading the published data AND asking very intelligent long-term alternative healthcare practitioners, like Getoff. I recommend checking out his site at http://www.naturopath4you.com/ as well as looking up his YOUTUBE videos. He is a tremendous voice of solidly backed science for a health life. Vegans should hear his YOUTUBE video of why veganism is not sustainable and a recipe for poor health at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_E3iMrq-UA
Many blessings!
If someone has some solid, published data that conclusively shows that the unmetabolized folic acid does us harm, please post it, so that we can all learn more, based on real science, rather than hysterical fear, that so far, I have not found supported. In doing literature searches, I came up with numerous rebuttals to folic acid causing harm, such as cancer, by highly credible sources, including a study published by Walter Willet, Harvard’s Chair of Nutrition, that specifically stated, “We did not observe an adverse effect of total folate or synthetic folic acid on risk of colorectal cancer or adenoma even during the folic acid fortification era.”
Please see: http://michaelmooney.net/FolateReducesCancerWillet.html
Then, here are some more –
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/778149?nlid=27526_1049&src=nldne
http://michaelmooney.net/FolicAcidDoesNotCauseCancer.pdf
http://michaelmooney.net/FolicAcidCancer.html
So, again, I ask that if anyone knows of a quality published study that shows that unmetabolized folic acid causes problems, please cite it.
Many blessings!
I too would like to see the data on unmetabolized folic acid. I believe Metametrix has an “Unmetabolized Folic Acid” test but want to know: just because it can be measured, does that make it harmful? Does this number ever change? Unless someone is a guinea pig and has done a number of these tests how would you know if it was high one week or month, that it would be high the next? And, if it is high, how long does it have to stay high to cause some deleterious effect? Seems that there are many unanswered questions but I concede, maybe I am the only one who doesn’t know the answers. Can anyone help out with this?
I don’t have a medical background, not that that helps much as most are not educated about nutrition and the bioavailability of what we ingest. Having said that it is apparent to me that the one size fits all studies fail when they don’t take into account individual differences. Even with in the group with the defective MTHFR there are so many different combinations of defects and prior damage to each individual. This is why not every child gets Autism from vaccinations, but they also are not safe for many others. At this point knowledge from as many sources as we can get and personal experiences from others as well as trial and error as to what helps us. This information is a blessing to those of us who have not healed through methods that have helped others– a true missing key for many.
Thank you, Michael Mooney! Thank you! I have thought this complete nonsense for so long and You have confirmed it. THANK YOU!
You’re quite welcome. While I had regarded Chris as authoritative at first, I have seen him make too many mistakes and make absolute statements that are more scary than grounded. Scary statements, like Dr. Mercola makes, are just ways to keep people HAVING to follow someone so that they get the REAL deal on scary health issues. See this video and see what a brilliant guy thinks of Mercola, at al…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCr614a6zPg — note, I am not a vegan and wonder if the guy in the video will do well long term, but he is brilliant. His knowledge of his blood tests and various nutritional biochemistry details is amazing! Blessings!
If this bloke with the vocabulary of 4 letter words that begin with F is your definition of brilliant, then I’m not as dumb as I thought.
Do you know you blood chemistry as well as he does? Do you understand the biochemical pathways that he is fluent in, such as triglyercised, hemoglobin A1c, insulin, IGF!, the fructorse pathway?
Linus Pauling could use F words and he still would have won the Nobel Prize, twice.
I rarely hear medical doctors that know what he fluidly elucidates. Give him credit for an advanced understand of metabolism and judging by other than the standards of science..
I stopped reading Mercola a long time ago because I got sick of the “scare tactics”. How in the world does it help anyone’s health to scare them into submission? He does employ a backhanded effect to corral “believers”. Oh, PLEASE!
With all due respect to “world nutrition authority, David Getoff”, the notion that excess folic acid “just gets excreted, like any other B-vitamin” is a very risky and shockingly ignorant statement, like something out of a 1980’s junior high school textbook.
“Like any other B-Vitamin”.
Speaking of the ’80s:
http://www.neurology.org/content/35/10/1466.short
In that small study, a dose of “only” 200mgs of B6 produced neuropathy, as the excess is not just excreted, but builds up.
And if Dr. Getoff wants to hear from more patients with B6 toxicity — some who were taking small doses and still haven’t recovered after years of avoiding the vitamin, then here’s a link to pass on to him:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642?page=1
what is >>>>>> Folic Acid (as folacin)
this is listed on my Vitacost multi-vitamins for men.
is (folacin) the same thing as folate?
the centrum silver that i have
been taken in the past, list: folic acid 400 mcg—100%
the vitacost bottle: Folic Acid (as folacin)800mcg-200%
Which one should I take?
Anyone?
Thanks!
I am an 87 y.o. female status post breast ca. I have been prescribed 1 mg folic acid q.d. of which I take 800 mcg. My latest blood test showed folate level of 40 that seems rather high – what do you think?
I have the c677t homozygous mutation and do not tolerate methylfolate well- even in small amounts. For about 3 days after taking it I have depression and mood swings and can’t sleep well- and that’s on less than 100 mcg. So for now, I’m just eating a lot of folate rich foods, but I would like to supplement. Most topics cover how you shouldn’t take folic acid and should take methylfolate- but what about folate supplements and folacin- could that be an ok alternative? I understand that I still have to break those down to a usable form of folate, but I think my issue is the methyl groups as I can’t tolerate methyl cobalamin either but do ok on hydoxocobalamin. I have a healthy 4 year old and used prenatals with folic acid while TTC and while pregnant with him and had no issues. We want to try for another in a few months so I feel like I should do something. I eat no fortified foods and am waiting on my homocysteine labs to come back (next week). My functional medicine doc looked at my genetic info and suggested that I try the simply one prenatal which is mentioned on here but reading all this info makes me scared to even touch folic acid…
Hello Rebecca. Please find my fully-referenced comments about folic acid being superior, in general, for those of us that have the genetic defect(s), by hitting “Control F” (find) on this page and putting in “Michael Mooney.”
Unfortunately, there is a lot of misunderstand being promoted about folic acid and folate.
Many blessings,
Michael
Michael,
Please get in touch with Dr. Ben Lynch, for his fully referenced information on the dangers of synthetic folic acid. I understand your defensiveness, but he’ll be able to help you learn why folic acid is not a good thing, to say the least.
Please shout this from the rooftops! I am homozygous A1298C and methylfolate and methylcobalamin made my life HELL. HELL. Psychosis, paranoia, cognitive decline, neurological damage, fatigue, destroyed my skin with cystic acne, worsened gastrointestinal problems, tremors, palpitations, Hypokalemia, spasms, mood changes, on and on. My doctor, a follower of Lynch and yasko, called it detox. It was so bad I nearly killed myself. I suffer horribly from scarring and psychiatric and neuro problems over a year later.
This stuff is not the end all be all. Lynch wants it to be, because he has multiple companies promoting it. I do not call him a doctor. He has no publications, no residency, no clinical experience, no educational background in genetics or nutrition. He is a naturopath who founded a supplement company, whose supplements destroyed my life.
Now the blogosphere has become an echo chamber, full of frightened people thinking they need methylfolate and everything else is poison, and the side effects are their fault.
We need a balanced approach to this.
1,000 times this!!!
I stopped taking medicine that helped me to breastfeed because I thought it was giving me HORRIBLE anxiety and mood swings – never second guessed the methylated B vitamins that my endo “prescribed”
I don’t subscribe to taking synthetic vitamins either – but you need to know that just because you have MTHFR does NOT mean that you are an undermethylator!!
Yes! I wish there was more out there to rebut the misinformation Lynch and others like him put out there about folic acid and perhaps other things as well. It’s hard to find anything countering it unless you’re specifically searching for it. When I realized I had a folate deficiency, I was afraid to try a folic acid supplement because I have the compound heterozygous MTHFR SNPs and had read all about how bad folic acid was. Funny thing is, I’d used products with folic acid in them for years with no issues. I’ve had trouble figuring out how much to supplement and if I actually need all the B vitamins, but to this day I feel I’ve suffered ZERO issues from folic acid itself. Also, I’ve had no issues with cyanocobalamin. I know there are some that do better on methylated forms, but this is definitely not true for everyone. I’ve personally never tried them, but since folic acid works, is more readily available, and is less expensive, I think I’ll stick to it unless my circumstances change.
My wife and I also suffered from sleep disturbances, headaches, feeling irritable, and dizzy when were tried multivitamins containing 5-MTHF. Even our Doctor got the same results after we told her of our experience.
We tried Thorne Research, Ortho Molecular Products and Vital Nutrients. They are all Doctor brands and all contain 5-MTHF.
We switched back to Vital Force form Eclectic Institute and our problems went away.
Check them out at iherb.com or use this link http://tinyurl.com/loymozo
Thanks for all the responses. I followed my doctor’s suggestion and tired the simply one prenatal. I like it so far. I feel more energetic on it and my mood is even better. I’m surprised by that. The only negatives are constipation and I have been having muscle twitching and kind of like a charlie horse feeling in my legs. I had this same issue while pregnant and thought it was restless legs. I’ll have to talk to my dr about that. Also my homocysteine is normal- so even with MTHFR it looks like the cycle is working somewhat. I’ll have my dr check again in a few months after supplementing with this. I stick with a paleo diet mostly and make sure to have greens everyday.
Simply one’s are great because they give you 1000 mcg of folic acid, which is plenty to compensate for poor conversion of folic acid, even with the MTHFR gene problem. The muscle cramps and constipation are generally helped by taking extra magnesium, especially before bedtime. Doctors’ Best 100% chelated magnesium – works best to help. For me 200 – 400 mg of magnesium
works best.
I take 400-600 mg of magnesium a night (chelated). I’m going to give it a week and maybe I’ll adjust.
Do 200 mg in morning and 200 mg at night.
The morning dose will increase your energy for the day and the nighttime dose will help you sleep
We use:
Doctors Best High Absorption 100% Chelated Magnesium 120 Tablets
Hello Michael;
I am reading your comments here and am quite interested in the info you present. Can you clear something up please? Are you saying that if we have MTHFR mutations we can avoid the methylfolate (or methylcobalamin) side-effects completely just by taking larger amounts of folic acid and converting it ourselves? I am interested in this because I am quite sick and kind of scared actually of the methylfolate/methylcobalamin IVs and shots my doc is trying to get me to do. I am compound heterozygous and before I knew this I used to get well just taking the multis with folic acid in them. Now I don’t know what to do……..ugh! Common sense says just do what I used to do.
Thanks, Cathy
Hello Cathy,
Naturopath David Getoff told me what you read I said (above) – about a significant number of people with MTHFR mutations having severe side-effects when we take methylfolate. I didn’t have any problem with it, but it also didn’t change my mid-normal homocysteine level, compared to me just getting 1,000 mcg of folic acid in my multi. So, I figured why bother buying and taking the extra capsules, when I find no perceptible change in anything.
Getoff also said that supplements are just that – supplements to food. We should be getting a lot of our folate by eating vegetables. Supplements just add to that. And the folate in foods doesn’t cause the odd problems that happen to some of us when we take methylfolate supplements.
So, you said it. “Common sense says just do what I used to do.”
Rebecca, while you are preparing for another child please look into iodine supplementation. Regular diets don’t provide this essential nutrient and it is essential for your health and the health and IQ of your child. I would look into Lynn Farrow, Dr. Brownstein, and the support groups on line. Lots of ground breaking success is occurring in these groups.
Hey Chris…I was just recently diagnosed with the MTHFR A1298C homozygous mutation, and have very high RBC folate levels (>1509)…it seems folate or folic acid is in everything…how best can I avoid this…my dr stated to NOT eat anything with folate in it….
Thank you
Dear Chris, very interesting article! It made me think about my labs. I have been taking the last six months, 2 weeks every month, right before my menstrual cycle, a B-complex supplement (MEGASORB VITAMIN B-COMPLEX by SOLGAR) with 400μg Folic Acid. A week ago I got my lab results and my blood red cells are lower than normal (RBC= 4,13 with normal being 4,2-5,4). So, do you think that Folic Acid is the reason?
A low carb diet as carbs help produce red blood cells(RBC), and if you just started taking the multi, (even if it is not in whole food form) it could take time as B-complex is necessary for RBC formation. Iron deficiency could also very well be the issue. Ultimately low red blood cell count means less oxygen for the bodies fluids and tissues. Low oxygen means pH will be more acidic and even a slight decrease in blood pH like .1 means 10x less oxygen and increased risk for cancer and other chronic diseases. The tissue acidity is in addition and a much longer discussion.
my infant grandson has mutation at mthfr. His mother can’t breast feed and all formulas have folic acid in them, any suggestions.?
You can try Standard Process Folic Acid B12 product. It is made in a liver food base with 400 mCg folate and 6 mcg Vit B12. You can easily crush and add to formula or baby food.