Does Dairy Cause Osteoporosis? | Chris Kresser

Does Dairy Cause Osteoporosis?

by Chris Kresser

Last updated on

istock.com/feellife

I do a lot of myth-busting around here, and it’s usually conventional wisdom that crumbles in the face of scientific evidence. But this time I’m actually siding with conventional wisdom, and busting a myth that’s common in the alternative health community. I addressed this topic in-depth on a recent podcast, but it’s such a common question that I decided to write an article on it for easy reference.

The myth in question is the idea that dairy foods contribute to osteoporosis by ‘acidifying’ our bodies. This claim is especially common in vegan-oriented alternative health media, but also comes up in other internet realms, including those with a Paleo orientation. The claim is based on the “acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis,” which I addressed extensively in my ‘Acid-Alkaline Myth’ series a couple months ago. (Check out part two as well.)

For those who missed the articles, this hypothesis states that foods high in phosphate leave an ‘acid ash’ after digestion, thereby lowering serum pH. The body supposedly compensates for this and restores normal blood pH by stealing alkaline minerals (such as calcium) from the bones, thus decreasing bone density.

Dairy products and bone health: one thing conventional wisdom gets right. Tweet This

Because of their phosphate content, milk and other dairy products are usually considered ‘acid-producing’ foods under this hypothesis. Thus, proponents claim that even though dairy contains calcium and other nutrients that can be used to build bone, dairy’s acidifying effect on the body outweighs its calcium content and results in a net loss of bone density.

Although I’ve already written about the hypothesis as a whole, I want to specifically address the claims regarding dairy for a few reasons. First, because my readership is acutely aware of how many times conventional wisdom has led us astray, I think we’re all more likely to believe a hypothesis that directly opposes mainstream health claims. In this case, dairy is so heavily advertised as a panacea for healthy bones that it would seem only natural for those claims to be dead wrong. You’ll see that (for once) this is not the case!

Additionally, I came across a 2011 study that specifically addresses the dairy-acid balance-osteoporosis connection. They came to some interesting conclusions that I want to share with you all, and hopefully we can put this issue to rest.

Dairy, acid balance, and osteoporosis: the real scoop

In this study, “Milk and acid-base balance: proposed hypothesis vs. scientific evidence,” the authors review both the acid-ash hypothesis as a whole and the specific claim that dairy contributes to osteoporosis. After reviewing the scientific evidence (or lack thereof), they reach the same conclusions that I have: the studies available simply do not support this hypothesis.

First, they emphasize that urine pH is not indicative of systemic pH. In fact, except in cases of serious renal insufficiency, diet does not affect serum pH at all. If it did, we’d be in a lot of trouble! The pH of our blood is maintained in a very tight range, and if it deviates significantly, we will die very quickly. No doubt we can really mess up our health by eating the wrong things, but thankfully our minute-to-minute survival doesn’t hinge on whether we can correctly balance the acidity or alkalinity of the foods we eat.

Further, the bones don’t even come into play in the regulation of our serum pH; that’s our kidneys’ job. Any ‘acid ash’ that is left behind by the foods we eat can be easily dealt with and eliminated in the urine. This is why your urine changes pH depending on what you eat. It’s just a sign that your kidneys are doing their job!

In short, their conclusions simply reiterate the points I made in my Acid-Alkaline series, and demonstrate that the acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis has no scientific backing. But perhaps the most interesting thing about this particular study on milk is the authors’ assertion that dairy isn’t even acid-forming in the first place!

The authors cite two studies that indicate that milk actually leaves an alkaline ash as opposed to an acid ash, based on measurements of urine pH and net acid excretion (NAE) following milk ingestion in clinical trials. (Remember, this doesn’t mean that milk raises serum pH. Foods can change urine pH, but not blood pH!) So not only is the hypothesis itself wrong; the application of the hypothesis is wrong too, at least in the case of dairy. Even if the acid ash hypothesis of osteoporosis were viable, there would still be no mechanism by which dairy would contribute to osteoporosis.

Dairy probably is good for your bones after all

The majority of the evidence indicates that conventional wisdom may actually be right about dairy. Clinical studies have found that drinking milk leads to a positive calcium balance, indicating that more calcium was absorbed than was excreted. (1) Other studies show that phosphate in general – not just from milk – increases calcium retention and improves bone health. (2) Increased dairy consumption is also consistently associated with lower rates of osteoporosis and better bone health. We all know to take observational studies with a grain of salt, but when clinical data backs up their conclusions, they’re significantly more convincing.

For example, an increased dairy intake in postmenopausal Korean women was associated with a decreased risk for osteoporosis. (3) Another study found that in the US, dairy intake was a significant predictor of osteoporosis among postmenopausal women. (4) And in Polish women, higher dairy consumption during childhood and adolescence predicted better bone health as adults. (5)

Although you won’t see me sporting a milk mustache in a “Got Milk?” ad anytime soon, it does appear that dairy can be beneficial for bone health. That’s not to say it’s necessary; after all, we got along just fine without dairy for most of human history! But based on the evidence, it’s safe to say that dairy does not contribute to osteoporosis, and full-fat dairy (preferably raw) can be a beneficial addition to the diet for many people.

378 Comments

Join the conversation

  1. Wow — I am thinking you are being paid by the dairy industry. As another stated — do some more research. We are the only species that drinks the milk of another animal, and we are the only species that does so after weaning. Human milk comes in a 4% protein, cow’s milk at 40%. Too much protein is very hard on the human body and does move the ph to the acidic side, which we need to regulate quickly or we will die. Why is it that study after study has been done and the countries with the largest consumption of dairy has the highest rates of osteoporosis? Why is it that our lovely government keeps increasing the somatic cell count (pus) so we can keep supporting the diary and pharmaceutical industries (yes, more antibiotics are given to farm animals than humans. You are a dangerous person.

  2. Wow — I am thinking you are being paid by the dairy industry. As another stated — d some more research. We are the only species that drinks the milk of another animal, and we are the only species that does so after weaning. Human milk comes in a 4% protein, cow’s milk at 40%. Too much protein is very hard on the human body and does move the ph to the acidic side, which we need to regulate quickly or we will die. Why is it that study after study has been done and the countries with the largest consumption of dairy has the highest rates of osteoporosis? Why is it that our lovely government keeps increasing the somatic cell count (pus) so we can keep supporting the diary and pharmaceutical industries (yes, more antibiotics are given to farm animals than humans. You are a dangerous person.

  3. Unedited: I’ve been an advocate, a fanatic really, of raw milk. For months and months I felt fine and also for months and months, not myself and often I felt sick. Sick to my gut, a constant hacking cough as if I was 99 years old with a ton of congestion and then pneumonia hit me, and the hacking got worse, then antibiotics and sort of got rid of pneumonia, but not feeling right. The cough continued, not all night, but always one with mucus overload. I would be sitting with my family and that cough would happen, embarrassing, but also alarming. What the hell was going on. Meanwhile, I paid 15.00 a gallon for raw milk and swore by it never suspecting it might, maybe, could it be, no, not possible, the problem and causing indigestion, pneumonia or a weak immune system, etc.? One day the raw milk ran out and the dairy had a salmonella test that was positive. I drank pasteurized milk mixed with homemade yogurt from pasteurized milk. Odd, I thought, I starting feeling rather good, and a few days later, no mucus, no cough, and my appetite seemed to be improving. Why? No, it couldn’t be the raw milk I swore by and seemed ready to fight to the death any notion of being denied raw, costly, rich milk from a dairy I visited some months ago. They were shut down for two months after that visit with a number of bacterial problems but opened again and I of course felt the shut down was simply ignorant government employees trying to look good by blaming the dairy for, actually proven, ongoing bacteria that caused a family to have a couple of sick children. Still, my fanaticism raged on. I’m going to cut out the raw milk for awhile and see how things go. In a way I hope it caused my health problems, problems I’ve never had in my life and it was a gradual onset, not just sudden knee-buckling illness(es). On the other hand, should I not completely recover, then I’ll have to start searching why the illnesses developed. If I completely recover, and I have a feeling I probably will, I will write an apology comment to all of those I scoffed at, maybe mocked, even hinted they might not be too bright and me the Genius of the Western world who recommended raw milk for everyone not because I had science to prove it but because I was influenced by a few nutritionists and they seemed to have a better take of the subject than those who were anti-raw milk, like the CDC, etc. I doubt if anyone will read this, but I feel good doing it.

  4. Hi All, my question about the bone issue is related to comments made by a well known Doctor practicing here in the in the U.K.Her position on dairy was related to the calcium to magnesium ratio I believe 10-1. It’s claimed our bodies require a ratio of 2-1 therefore a conflict occurs for absorption between the calcium and magnesium which may result in a magnesium deficiency which of course would not help the bone issue. This Doctor is pretty much Paleo and I do like her thinking on most issues. Could any one comment on this theory? Thanks.

  5. I believe it’s the high calcium in cow’s milk which contributes to osteoporosis and fracture risk:

    “In healthy subjects, osteoblastic bone cells respond to the influx of calcium by composing a matrix upon which calcium precipitates. In the process of creating this matrix, 50-70% of the involved osteoblasts die. The greater the influx of calcium, the greater osteoblast activity, and the greater osteoblast apoptosis rate. An increased osteoblast apoptosis rate leads to a decrease in the age-related osteoblast replicative capacity (ARORC). In comparison to healthy bone, in osteoporotic bone the decrease in the replicative capacity of osteoblastic cells is greater. Due to the eventual resulting lack of osteoblast activity, micro-fractures cannot be repaired. Continuously maintaining a high BMD comes with continuously high bone remodeling rates, which regionally exhaust the ARORC, eventually leading to irreparable microfractures.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15949902

  6. First, your #3 point above states that dairy consumption is a predictor of osteoporosis (it is, as studies correlating dairy consumption and risk of osteoporosis have shown time and again). If you honestly believe grown humans benefit from consuming the breastmilk of a different species for ideal health, can you please explain the recent Harvard study showing dairy consumption having a negative affect on bone health. There are dozens of other studies discussed by Dr Michael Gregor, MD (who does not receive money from any organization that could benefit from the interpretation of study results- please see nutritionfacts.org. I am honestly curious as to your position debunking the science discussed by Dr Gregor and the significant increase in osteoporosis in women consuming large amounts of dairy products. Thank you for your time.

    • Anything Greger states is suspect. First of all he advocates a diet that will eventually cause illness from being deficient in B12, zinc, iron, protein, and K2 among others. Why does he do that? He found an audience or he’s playing games. He says all profits from books and lecture go to good causes. Hmm. This salesman advocates and prescribes a diet lacking nutrients and appealing to some very naïve people. Vegans claim milk is a plague, and if that’s all we consumed, it undoubtedly would be a problem.
      Here is iron deficiency: iron deficiency include fatigue, decreased work and school performance, slow cognitive and social development during childhood, difficulty maintaining body temperature, decreased immune function, and glossitis (an inflamed tongue).
      zinc deficiency: Top five signs of zinc deficiency are:
      Compromised immune system: prone to infection or flu. Diarrhea: A compromised immune system makes one susceptible to infection. Hair loss (Note, Michael Greger does have hair loss) and skin lesions: Zinc nutrition deficiency weakens the cells, which can result in hair loss in case of cells on the scalp and lesions on the skin. This is one of the prominent signs of zinc deficiency. Other signs of zinc deficiency are reduced fertility, rashes on the skin, spots on fingernails, sleep disturbance, loss of sex drive, loss of taste or smell, and ¬ in some cases ¬ mild anemia.
      K2 deficiency: Vitamin K2 regulates arterial calcification through protein modulation. In one study, those who had the highest amount of vitamin K2 were 52 percent less likely to experience calcification in their arteries and 57 percent less likely to die from heart disease over a seven to 10 year period. K2 can be gotten from natto, but one has to acquire a taste for it, but grass fed beef and milk from pastured cows. Personally I wouldn’t care but when things get so outrageous and simply wrong, something is aroused, mainly to ignore such a man who claims to be a helping people when the only thing he’s helping is getting attention for lies or at best false information. Let him debate Gary Taubes or a few others, this guy would not do that. There’s a website claiming Einstein was a vegan. Albert’s brain could never have grown to do the impressive things he did, but vegans will grab onto anything to prop up their position. Even lie. I have never heard an omnivore lie about his or her diet. It’s quite simple, and insofar as a glass of raw milk per day goes, really, one doesn’t end up with osteoporosis but being a vegan it’s a sure thing eventually. A simple statement: How could a diet be recommended that assures those who follow it they will become nutritionally deficient. Greger would deny such a thing, but pressed he’d have to admit a vegan diet does lack necessary nutrients. This is such a waste or time. I’m done with it.

  7. Hi guys what about the puss the white blood cells from the cows teet? And what about the unfiltered water with flouride found in the 2% milk?

    I recently switched to almond milk I didn’t like the taste.
    I just bought soy milk to try not sure about it though.

    I would like to buy whole milk (red milk) but trying to watch my cholesterol.

    BTW nice article, will have to further look into the studies about there being no link to osteoporosis.

    • It’s not puss, it’s pus, it’s not teet, it’s teat. Raw whole milk from Jersey cows on pasture year round is a healthy way to go. Some claim anything from another animal is not natural, but the last I looked it’s not natural to sit and type out this nonsense either, or drink sodas that have 12 teaspoons of sugar added, or smoke cigarettes, or drink alcohol, or about 20,000 more things. If we went back to natural, we’d find ourselves heading where the weather’s warmer, competing with animals for territory and if we went vegan here’s the way the planet would look if we absolutely didn’t kill animals:
      Presently there are 21,000,000,000 chickens, and if we didn’t eat them but allow their chicks to reproduce after 6 months and onto five years of age, it takes 21 days for chickens to hatch. Multiply 7 times 21,000,000,000 and you get 147,000,000,000. That’s in one year, now multiply that by 7 and you get 882,000,000,000 and just for fun let’s do it for two more years time 6 or 12 time 882, and we get 10,584,000,000,000 and divide 7,000,000,000 and just for fun let’s go three more years and not include cows, cattle, goats, turkeys, lamb, pigs, and whatever else we eat, and we’d have 190,512,000,000,000 and rather than a little over 1500 chickens per person on earth, we’d have a bit of a crowd, try: 27,216 chickens per person.

      The fact is we evolved to be meat, milk, fruit, vegetable, egg eaters or be taken over by the animal kingdom. If one adds all the animals we’ve domesticated, the number per person would close to 1,000,000 animals per human species. At that point the vegans would turn into rampaging animal killers and especially if one of their children got their eyes pecked out or stomped on by a raging bull, etc. Our reign of terror will end sooner than we think should be continue to destroy the ozone layer and poison the earth, but we could change things and make the earth a paradise. Will we? I don’t see that kind of wisdom or self-control, we’ll get sent packing someday and all our beads and bangles will suddenly look like so much garbage that killed our species. With that depressing thought, I’m going to have a beer.

      • Robert,
        Basic economics shows that if fewer people want a product, the supplier will stop making the product. Therefore, if fewer people buy eggs, the supplier will stop breeding as many chickens and fewer eggs will be produced. The entire world isn’t going to go vegan at once anyways, so the amount would slowly decline. Like I said, basic economics. The milk you are suggesting is highly unsustainable and if everyone got milk like that we would need multiple worlds just in order for the cows to have enough land. I’d definitely recommend watching the documentary Cowspiracy because your comment really makes no sense.
        illumiNOT, I definitely recommend cashew milk like Megan suggested! It’s a lot healthier than milk and a lot more sustainable!

        • Cashew Milk IS the most Creamiest vegan “milk” alternative I’ve had. The chocolate was delicious. BUT, it triggered my asthma and made my sinuses stuffy & inflamed. Cashews and Peanuts are BOTH high in MOLD toxins and Lectins. Also they are both Legumes. I am mold sensitive to molds. Fyi…

        • If there were the number of chickens I claim, other animals will soon feast on chickens, and they will multiply and the idea of being wrong because Katherine seems to think basic math comes into play, if nobody wanted eggs or chickens, what would stop chickens from reproducing anyway. At the point they are not high or even on the menu of millions, what, they will simply quit life! They are omnivores of the most basic kind, but we feed them seeds and make vegans out of them. Take a real chicken eating insects, yummy stuff for them, wild seeds, etc., and put them in combat contest with a domestic chicken and the domestic bird would be toast. If the animal world had its way we’d be on their menu and to prevent complete extinction of wild animals we did something brilliant, we raised animals to feast on and thrive on, the only problem was Monsanto and a few other maniacs just had to think, “grow rich” use antibiotics, growth hormones, etc., and that’s what was screwing up real food choices for omnivores. This morning I was a vegetarian, I had eggs, milk, yogurt, mushrooms, butter and onions cooked in ghee. At noon I was an omnivore, meat, veggies, etc., and for snacks I’m a vegan, blueberries, strawberries, etc. and dinner a combination of each. Some veggies, yogurt, meat, etc. The thing about vegans is, they thought they’d save the world if they quit eating meat and there’s no diet that is abandoned more than the vegan diet. Their heroes are the last people on earth any real person would emulate. T. Colin Campbell, good grief, look at him. He gets attention being a vegan and recommending a way of eating that is deficient in much needed nutrients, I call that irresponsible.

      • That was hilarious!…..

        I saw that documentary Forks over Knives on. Reflux and it turned my thinking upside down. I considered myself a milkaholic…. dairy product meat eater ect.
        After a recent bone density test showed moderate bone loss…I thought how could that be… I drank so much milk over the years. I’m so confused…… such conflicting info.

        • On Netflix!….. not reflux…. damn autocorrect.
          The two scientists were very compelling on the no dairy no meat argument.

  8. I think Chris’es conclusions are excellent – at least from acid-ash hypothesis. The problem is that higher consumption of calcium does not do the job, if there’s not enough of other vitamins and minerals, esp. vitamin D and vitamin K2 – avid followers of Chris Kresser’s work know that… In that perpective – not all milk is equal in prevention of ostheoporosis. UHT skimmed milk or half-fat milk is just a sugary water (lactose is a suger, after all) without D and K2 quantities to get calcium (that remains even in UHT skimmed milk) to the place where we need it the most – to our bones.

  9. Your facts are definitely wrong. You might want to look into your research better. We shouldn’t be drinking any milk from another species for Calcium intake or any other reason. What other animal does this?

    • Oh Brother, what fun it will be explaining some realities on this one. In the Alps, for instance, the tribe of about 2000 hardy people ate, of all things, cheese and rye bread and it carried them through rather stormy winters where there’s no veggies growing, fruit, and they certainly are not Vegan or Vegetarian. They eat, or ate, for I don’t know if they survived the lunacy of the Western lifestyle, for instance why am I typing this comment, sitting at a desk, and hauling food out of my refrigerator whenever I need it while 2/3rds of the nation, U.S.A. is overweight or obese? Back to that “wacko” Alps tribe who just happened to have 0.03 dental caries out of 96 teeth, meaning it would take 300 teeth to register one cavity, while we “advanced” Americans seldom have 32 teeth and those we have are often decayed or have been. Think winter, think out of Africa, think desperation, think Masai, think tapping the vein of a cow for blood and mixing it with the milk of the same animal and they have little of no heart problems, and their teeth, mercy, if I had teeth like that I’d never stop smiling. We’re not foraging animals with sharp claws and teeth, we’re big brained animals who do what we need to do. All this talk of we sucking at the breasts of cows is idiotic and designed to turn people off milk, probably vegans or vegetarians with their propaganda hat on. Over half of vegans quit that insane diet and their hero, T. Colin Campbell looks 110 at 83 years old and his China Study is pure nonsense from the mind of a neurotic looking for eternal life on earth. Additionally, China is the country with the highest percentage of diabetics on earth with over half a billion prediabetes, and they aren’t drinking milk. Certified raw milk from ancient breed cows like Jersey raised on grass and I don’t mean Marijuana, are a gift for we Northerners, and apparently some Africans where we have our ancestral roots. We are on the wrong track with our technology, pesticides, GMO Monsanto’s dispersing even more poison, and should we go through the 80,000 toxic chemicals that are everywhere, a few here and there but never gone, and what do we have here: Milk is bad. How ridiculous and based on flawed science. Hunter Gatherers would never, ever eat a soy bean, why break a tooth and eat something so obnoxious even if they cooked it if they were lucky enough to find a fire started by lightening. But if they were starving and the udder of a cow or rotting meat were around, the process would have begun. Truth is a miraculous way of finding solutions, some of those naysayers with an agenda might look into that, but they won’t for the most part, they get attention saying things that are questionable at best and dead wrong most of the time. Any diet that leads to B12 deficiencies, plus zinc, iron and protein is not something that any down to earth animal would get into to, only humans who obviously are going to commit species suicide if they continue on the road they’re on. Who needs carbohydrates? Nobody, carbohydrates are a zero requirement for life for Homo Sapiens. Doubt that, and yes, milk has carbs, but I’m only saying the carb requirement evolved not as a necessity but as something available, like fruit, etc. All around us is processed food madness and what does the anti milk advocates put their energy into? No milk, bad stuff, meant for calves, not people. Rotting meat is not meant to be eaten but has been many times and at the Donner Summit a few humans ate their own. Besides, Swiss cheese and many other raw cheeses are healthful, delicious and enabled Alps’ tribes to get through the winter. Oh yes, did I mention, sometimes some of the younger of the tribe would venture to a place where processed food was available, and they got dental caries, when they returned to the tribe some of the caries would gloss over, plus they didn’t have tooth brushes in the Alps. I asked a very pricey dentist in Bellevue, WA if that was possible? Answer: Yes, he’d seen it, the dentist, Dr. Swxxxxy. I’m done. (I’d be remiss if I gave out his name)

      • I love your discussion regarding chemicals and pollutants contributing to poor health- I’m totally with you. I personally do not think we have any need to drink secretions from another species, but I believe the biggest problems in dairy milk nowadays are the hormones pumped into the cows to overproduce milk constantly, as well as the chemicals and poor living conditions experienced by the milking cows (just as it does for a human Mom, stress levels, drugs, chemicals and hormones spill out into the breastmilk while they are nursing). In addition, mastitis is a very regular occurance for cows due to untreated regular abrasions and presence of stool and bacteria everywhere in a cow barn. So, we are drinking bovine breastmilk (which contains enough growth hormone for a baby cow to grow to 1,000lbs in a year), blood, puss, stool and all the hormones, antibiotics and chemicals present in the animal’s system. With he increase in chemicals everywhere with western culture today, these toxins congregate in animal tissues and secretions/excretions- magnifying exposure with human consumption.

    • Uh, Maxi, you are saying Chris is wrong, yet you don’t have any proof to back that up. Where are YOUR references?

      And just because no other animal drinks another’s milk makes no sense. It does not mean the milk is bad for us.

      Please use common sense.

    • Let’s see, 10-12 oz. of milk per day, plus vegetables, small amounts of fruit , none in the cold months, no bread, cereal, sugar, etc., and more or less, follow a Ketogenic/Atkins diet, sort of, lots and lots of fat, meaning saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fat, as in coconut oil, raw butter, ghee, lard, tallow and duck fat, plus a little olive oil. Plenty of pure water, not from commercial markets in bottles, purely a con-game created by criminal minds, I think Trump tried the water thing, which figures since he has a criminal mind. Look up the ketogenic diet, it’s been around a long, long time and cured many epileptic patients, but not all. Atkins got his ideas from the ketogenic sector and today, his diet, demonized at first, is most effective in weight loss by a 3-5 times margin. And what difference does it make if one drinks raw milk from pastured cows? A lot, they are healthier, etc., not the same with pasteurized commercial milk. Look at it this way: Whole raw milk from pastured cows is not a food for total survival except for a calf until such a time it’s on it’s own. However, it’s part of some people diets, it has good fats, phosphorous, calcium, a tad of magnesium, B12, something vegans can’t get unless they go animal foods. For two million years we’ve been eating animals, lots of fats, seasonal berries, etc. In other words, a cup and one half of milk make up 210 calories out of a daily 2000 calorie day. That leaves about 1800 calories for the rest, and it is a complete protein, supplies us with whipping cream, butter, and cheese. So, what’s the problem? Oh, I forgot, no other animal eats milk from other animals. The fact is, they do and especially our pets, but do wild animals? Being wild may sound, uh, wild, but we aren’t. Mother’s milk from Homo Sapiens, is high in fat and it’s the fat that makes our brain grow, without the fat, limited intelligence. Those who use the “No other animal,” argument, or whatever, seem to forget we’re not only the most intelligent mammal, we’re by far the most intelligent mammal. If anyone wants to see how intelligent and how different, go the Nora Gedgaudas’s video shown on YouTube: Nora Gedgaudas—The ‘Holy Grail’ of Primal Health: Benefits of a Fat-Based Caloric Intake. Once a person watches her video, and several others, we start to realize the bad rapping raw milk, commercial milk is fair game, is rather silly and a waste of time. Why do people do it? That’s an easy question to answer, “They are often going vegan, and if there’s a more devious sector in the diet wars, I have yet to find any. Certainly it’s not lacto vegetarians, but vegans, mercy, what a sad lot they are. They have even claimed we are made to be vegans and started out as vegans. I would like to point out just one fact: In the late fall, winter and early spring, there aren’t any veggies, fruits, etc., We ate insects, small animals raw, and whatever else we could find. I don’t respect vegans, but I do respect their right to be stupid.

    • The last time I looked, we’re the only mammals who cook their food, ferment their food, make pots, pans, glass ware, tablecloths, cars, pump gas, etc. Additionally, we don’t have to pasteurize dairy, raw from pastured cows/goats/sheep drunk in whatever quantity makes on feel good has been know to heal many ills. Animals don’t have midwives, pediatricians, or psychiatrists. In other words comparing us to all or any mammals is plain silly. Think about it. We are different. We’re more or less hairless, we walk upright, our brains are larger than other animals weight to brain size ratio (sperm whale’s brain in larger but it’s body weighs 32,000 pounds. If you put it’s brain size, 18 pounds and ours at 3 pounds with a 160 pound average you get 0.00056% of brain matter for the whale, and [email protected] for humans. In other words, the whale would have be lose 31,100 pounds to a weight of 900 pounds to have the same ratio of functional brain power as a human. That would only make it equal, not surpass us. To surpass us it would have to drop another 200 pounds, but even then it might have a hiccup or two trying.

  10. From what I have picked up from blogs of some credible sources like the HBR, osteoporosis occurs due to insufficiency of Calcium and Vitamin D. Milk has Calcium but so has a lot of other products like leafy vegetables, which also has Phosphorus. What we novices don’t understand is that it is not like making a mixture (like 2 tbsp cal+ 100ml milk). It is complicated that that. Again sun rays produce vita D but WHO says tanning is not necessary. 15 minutes of sunlight exposure/day is all you need. Be careful, it says, UVA and UVB rays can give you skin cancer. Conclusion: continue eating healthy diet (and species breast milk theft is a political issue) and consult your doctor. After my extensive readings, my ignorance is more now. So much for osteoporosis, :/

    • Foods to eat: Raw milk from pastured cows, raw butter, red meat from pastured animals, organic vegetable, organic fruit but not much, beef tallow to cook with, lard, ditto, coconut oil, nuts, seeds, herbs, chicken eggs from chickens out and abut, them, too, raw cheese, olive oil but make sure it’s all olive oil and organic, etc., pure water, yogurt made from pastured milk, raw if possible, you have to make it yourself, easy to do. Pemmican in the winter when traveling. But when celebrating holidays, eat whatever is served and lots of it. Wild salmon, and whatever follows the organic rule of thumb.

      Foods not to eat: Anything processed by demonic psychopaths in the processed food businesses. I met them and I assure you, they are devils. Not the little folks who serve those crazies, but the CEO’s etc. I could tell you stories just how unethical they are, but that’s too redundant, but I am sympathetic for those who cannot afford organic foods, and few can or know much about it.

  11. We do not need to drink the breast milk of another species. That’s really the bottom line here. Milk was not even in homes on a regular prior to the 1930’s. It wasn’t until the government had a surplus after WWII did they push this agenda. All to make the almighty dollar.

    • My mother was raised on raw goat milk and when she died, at 95, she did so with 31 teeth, all her own. She was drinking milk at age 1-16 in Ontario, Oregon, the year: 1909. I was raised on raw milk of the cow variety, and at 85 years old the year would be 1931. It’s quite obvious commercial milk is awful stuff with a bacteria count of nearly 90,000, whereas raw milk from pastured cows bacteria count is less than 5000, and in fact, high in life supporting good bacteria. It’s not raw milk from pastured cows that is harmful, in fact, the opposite, but commercial milk given antibiotic and growth hormone. The resulting horrors of growing to enormous size but with rickety bones, knees that fail, backs that go bad, teeth that rot, and digestion that is sorely in need of probiotics each day though few take them, is the result of processed foods, commercial milk being one of them. Full of more than 60 digestive enzymes, growth factors, and immuno-globulins (antibodies). These enzymes are destroyed during pasteurization, making pasteurized milk much harder to digest Loaded with vitamins (A, B, C, D, E, and K) in highly bioavailable forms, and a very balanced blend of minerals (calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, and iron) whose absorption is enhanced by live Lactobacilli
      Rich in conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which fights cancer and boosts metabolism Rich in healthy un-oxidized cholesterol
      Rich in beneficial raw fats, amino acids, and proteins in a highly bioavailable form, all 100 percent digestible It also contains phosphatase, an enzyme that aids and assists in the absorption of calcium in your bones, and lipase enzyme, which helps to hydrolyze and absorb fats.
      I can run, touch my toes easily, ride a bike, climb stairs, go from a squat position to standing without the slightest strain, do forty pushups without much trouble, do 100 squats, use rowing machine three times a week, but when I walked 13.5 miles one day I thought, “Madness.” I thought that because I hadn’t walked that far in one day for years, that’s over half a marathon distance. My knees weren’t sore, but my right outer thigh was on fire, other than that I was fine and in two days I was rested and normal. I drink raw milk from Jersey (ancient breed) cows, and I’ve read the negatives of milk many times and believed the VV propaganda nonsense briefly and gave milk up and I was put in a fowl mood. I then drank nearly a quart of raw full fat milk, slept like a baby and never looked back. They are right we are the only mammal who drinks milk after we’re weaned, we’re also the only animal that sends people to the moon, builds steel bridges, manufactures cars and a million other things, which means we’re an unusual mammal, an animal with differences no other animal understands of is capable of doing. And so, VV’s should remember both end up with serious B12 deficiencies, protein, fat, zinc, and often the women are hemoglobin deficient. One who was a vegetarian was told by her doctor to eat red meat of die. She looked great after four months and I didn’t recognize her and when did she said, “I was less than 80% and would surely die if I continues. she did lose her fetus, a miscarriage, and it was that fact that helped change her vegetarian direction.

      • And where did the cows get their nutrients to put in the milk? From the PLANTS that they eat (assuming actual pasturing) and not fortified feed consumption. Yes milk has many nutrients, but you can get them all from plant sources that are easier to digest and easier on the environment. Secondly; Can YOU manufacture a car? Can YOU build a bridge? Can YOU send someone to the moon? No, of course you can’t. Because you haven’t learned how. No one can logically equate learned behaviours with biological idiosyncrasies. Evolving large brains doesn’t prove we need to diverge from every other species on the planet and drink the milk of another species past infancy.

        • This anti raw milk thing is so bogus, it’s borderlines on idiotic. The writer is obviously another vegan on the loose, trying to get us all to become sweetie–pie plant eaters and seeming to forget more animals are killed through industrial farming than simple animal eating omnivores, etc. But that’s not the point, Raw milk from pastured cows has a nutrient vegans become deficient in 97% of the time, B12, plus a few other things, and CLA, a cancer fighter found in Raw Milk doesn’t exist in plant food other than small amounts in some vegetable oils. The vegan folks, known for the most fanatical lunacy in the nutritional complex, miss the point of health, they think it lies in no meat, no dairy, not animal products on their tootsies, or wool sox, etc. Poor little crazies, they don’t understand the most obvious and well-documented history of the human race, we are omnivores, not carnivores, not vegans, but can possible survive fairly well on lacto vegetarian but adding soy products does get a bit dicey, why bother. Mark Hyman once advocated soy but got taken to task by a woman with the Weston Price Foundation, quite roundly. She had him on the run and if he still advocated soy, I have to say, “Mark, you got it wrong, soy is not a health food, it’s a non-food lest you mean the highly fermented version. Meanwhile, a couple cups of high quality raw milk on pasture is a wonderful addition to any diet. If it causes any reaction, quit drinking it, but well over 90% of the time, it’s an enormous benefit, then continue on your vegan journey with this one exception, you may thrive, heck, you might even add raw cheese from pastured animals, not raw cheese from grain fed animals. It’s all in the source, folks.

    • I have seen your comments before. Are you a Paleo follower? I think you are…I think I have seen you defend meat eating before…and well, if you eat meat but not dairy, I am prone to believe you follow a Paleo diet.

    • In Europe we have been drinking milk for 6.000 years. The milk has saved many of my ancestors’ lives. This, I am very grateful for. Milk is good. And healthy. We will never stop drinking milk. Love it.

    • Hmm, strange, my mother who lived to age 95 was raised on raw goat milk, the year, 1906. Her grandmother had two goats and when my mother died she had 31 teeth, and her diet was less milk after age 17 she left her grandmother’s home, but continued to drink small quantities, why small? She couldn’t get used to grain fed, pasteurized milk from cows. Your idea that milk didn’t exist before the 30’s is ridiculous. Milk has been drunk or cheese and curds fashioned from it for thousands of years.

    • This article is terribly misinformative. For example, he draws his studies from only one website, which I imagine is owned by big pharma or the dairy industry. Look for your own studies in various sources, especially those that are not biased or funded by those that are causing more harm than good. Make your own conclusion. Your health is important.

      • Loren, you realise of course what the “single web site ” is don’t you? It is a well respected repository used by the majority of reputable studies o archive their results, and sorry to pan your suggestion (some would say conspiracy) that it is not owned by that fictional character BigPharma, nor the dairy industry.
        You are right about looking at various studies, but remember that most of the dissenting opinions come from “BigVegan” and similar groups with ulterior motives, and do not follow truly scientific methods, but rely on emotions and pseudoscience.

        • No “BigPharma”? Hard to take anything someone says seriously when they dismiss the effect billions of dollars in profits has on inflencing studies or the interpretation of those studies. Anyway, look at multiple studies (including the bmj article above) and it’s hard to justify cow’s milk intake, even if you don’t care about the ethics of how animals are treated.

          • Another vegan dispersing fanaticism. The longest lived people on earth, first Monaco, then Japan, and here’s a clip regarding milk in Japan: Cheese and milk are both popularly enjoyed in Japan and have a household ubiquity similar to the U.S. While the introduction of cheese goes back centuries to varieties of Mongolian style cheese brought over from China and Korea, its` introduction to mainstream Japanese dining came about during the Meiji Era of late 19th century. This was the most significant time in Japanese history- from political, cultural, and every other aspect- including cuisine.
            One only needs to do one thing regarding the vegan lunacy, it’s a diet with horrible results long term, it’s a diet with naturally occurring nutrient deficiencies, it’s a diet where more than half of those going on the diet drop out. Why? They get weak, sick and their brains shrink. If anybody calls that normal, they aren’t normal. Of course maybe those that don’t drop out lose so much mental capacity they can’t reason any longer, and that’s very possible. Here is what vegan diets cause when a mother is a vegan prior to conception: Dr James Mills, senior investigator in the Division of Epidemiology, Statistics, and Prevention Research, in America and co-author said that critical events in the formation of the brain and spinal column occur very early in pregnancy–in the first 28 days after conception–before many women even realise they are pregnant.

            “If women wait until they realise that they are pregnant before they start taking folic acid, it is usually too late,” he said.

            In America all women of childbearing age are recommended to consume 400 micrograms of folic acid each day to ensure they have sufficient levels if they fall pregnant unintentionally.

            Dr Mills said it would be wise for women to do the same with B12.

            “Our results offer evidence that women who have adequate B12 levels before they become pregnant may further reduce the occurrence of this class of birth defects,” Dr. Mills said.

            So, vegans come out with hocus pocus nonsense, a child is born and is compromised for the rest of its life, however long that last. I call it criminal and stupid, and for what? The idea that animals will be save. If all the animals were saves, all of them, we’d soon be killing them just to survive. Life is not an idiotic game of being an idealist according to some misfit’s concept of goodness whose only goal is that they’d bolt to heaven when they died. Want a name? James Pierrepont Greaves, In 1817, Greaves experienced “some strong interior visitations” which led him to a belief in the “divine in man” and convinced him that he had a spiritual mission in life to share his commitment to the love of God with others.[4] In 1818, he joined Johann Heinrich Pestalozzi, the Swiss educational reformer, then established at Yverdon, where he taught English.[4] There he met fellow socialist Robert Owen.[3]

            Returning to England in 1825 he founded the London Infant School Society and became its secretary.[3] In 1832 he was settled in the village of Randwick, Gloucestershire, and engaged in an industrial scheme for the benefit of agricultural labourers with his sister Mary Ann Greaves.[5] From the 1830s onwards he referred to himself as a “sacred socialist”.
            Why did he go fanatic? He lost his butt in business, nothing more. In other words, he was out of his cotton-picking mind and the more vegan is research the more maniacal it proves itself to be. I’m done with the vegan thing, this is my last plunge into this nonsense, besides, it does no good except to me, I get the idiocy of it out of my system and I wouldn’t have cared had vegan converts not dispersed deceit, lies, and nonsense that leads to disease. We have oceans that are toxic due to industrial farming to a great degree. Whole lakes cannot be swum in in Washington State, Lake Chelan, catch fish in some rivers and you’re sure to get a toxic does of some industrial farming pesticide. Should I name a couple dozen other problems from industrial farming practices? I think not, too much trouble and too depressing.

          • The last time I looked, we’re the only mammals who cook their food, ferment their food, make pots, pans, glassware, tablecloths, cars, pump gas, etc. Additionally, we don’t have to pasteurize dairy, raw from pastured cows/goats/sheep drunk in whatever quantity makes one feel good and has been known to heal many ills. Animals don’t have midwives, pediatricians, or psychiatrists. In other words comparing us to all or any mammals is plain silly. Think about it. We are different. We’re more or less hairless, we walk upright, our brains are larger than other animals weight to brain size ratio, for instance, sperm whale’s brain in larger but it’s body weighs 32,000 pounds. If you put it’s brain size, 18 pounds, you get 0.00056% of brain matter for the whale, and ours at 3 pounds with a 160 pound average 0.02% for humans. In other words, the whale would have be lose 31,100 pounds to a weight of 900 pounds to have the same ratio of functional brain power as a human. (additionally we have 35 times the brain power of a sperm whale.) That would only make it equal, not surpass us. To surpass us it would have to drop another 200 pounds, but even then it might have a hiccup or two trying especially going from 32,000 pounds to 700 pounds. Of course the math thing is silly, too, but at least I know it.

        • What a load of crap.
          Let’s look at the clinical study of
          Over 100,000 men and women in Sweden and printed in the British medical journal! Guess what the findings were OVER TWENTY YEARS OF RESEARCH?? DAIRY CAUSES DAMAGE TO BONES! time for people to really decide if dairy is doing them favours and stop justifying with any research- dairy made me feel like shit, and not to mention the VIOLENCE OF MILKING COWS LIKE A MECHANICAL PRODUCTION. But hey. It’s ok to keep any animal pregnant for their lifetime – correction, until no good for milk then slaughter for food. we have billions living in starvation – we could use the grains that are fed to cattle to stop world hunger THREE TIMES OVER. But hey, you go ahead and enjoy your story that dairy is “good”.

          • Milk, dairy of neither. Are you suggesting the grains fed cows be fed to those starving? In the first place wheat production will feed 11 billion people, the last I heard we have a little over 7 billion on earth. Insofar as slaughtering cows for their meat contribution, and giving them growth hormones to increase their milk output, what does that have to do with milk, good or bad, as a food source. Raw milk from cows on pasture are eventually slaughtered usually when their usefulness tanks. Sorry, but life is not a sweet dream from the hand of an unrealistic idealist, though many religions claim all ends well that ends but I won’t get into that. I worry about casein and casomorphin since I love milk and I think I’m an addict to its morphine effects. I’m past eighty, run, walk, sleep well, still a man, but I’m a bit critical of addictions to anything, especially drugs. Sugar, coffee, morphine, oxycodone, heroin, cocaine, etc. and drugs many people are addicted to , and gluten, too, and the only thing I use of all those things is the morphine in dairy. I have quit many times and became tense, irritable, stressed, lost sleep, appetite, etc., and my monthly food cost was nearly 1000.00. (2915.00 for three months). All organic, grass-fed meat, poultry, pork, lamb, wild salmon, no sugar, grains, etc., and so, the one thing I’m told is bad for me is raw dairy from cows on pasture but from guys like Cohen, T. Colin Campbell, etc., I’m older than Campbell but look 30 years younger, which isn’t saying much since he looks to be over 100. All that vegan nonsense that leads to Alzheimer’s, or dementia or anemia, etc. I had a health food business and the people with the most health problems were vegetarians and vegans. I hired a fruitarian once but had to stop every 50 miles so he could pee. He was wildly irrational and nearly drove me nuts. The longest lived people in Europe are high milk drinkers or dairy advocates, I refer to Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway. Maybe they do get osteoporosis but most countries do. If quitting milk would cause me to look, act, and advocate what McDougal, Campbell, Cohen etc., promote I would become a wine drinking carnivore instead. What are the keys to health. Organic produce, grass-fed meats, wild salmon from Alaska, a few nuts, high quality water and not 2 quarts a day unless one is hiking in the heat. Interval training, some weight lifting, a loving relationship with someone, a woman in my case, enough finances to afford life, be generous and like to help others in a personal way, that is, enjoy their happiness from the help I give, which I do and always have. I don’t write it off my taxes like Bill Gates or any other plutocrat, I offer money, food, help moving things, and love. Industrial produce kills far more small animals, and I include bees, kind of necessary I hear for our survival, than those who raise animals humanely by thousands of times and more. Where did this idea of separating animals from our produce come from? From plutocratic mentality where everything is based on profit. What has happened is, we’ve allowed artificial and chemical pesticides and killing us slowly, but much, much faster than natural lifespan and with many more illnesses to ruin our lives. If, however, living with chronic illnesses is not a problem that lead to drug use just to keep us going is acceptable, then nothing really matters, we become a pawn of the drug companies and doctors who “Practice” medicine. Food makes us what we are and at this point with 100% of my diet the best I know of, if my one questionable food is milk and I feel as I do, I might actually be on the right track or slightly off. Either way, one could say, “Well, if you quit dairy you will do even better.” I have tried that already and it never went well. It’s not raw dairy its the millions of tons of wheat each year, in fact, over 800 millions of tons of wheat each year world wide of a grain that is toxic, indigestible, is gluteomorphin, addictive and makes us fat. It kind of happened to me, if I gain 10 pounds that’s a sign I’m getting fat and if I kept going like that eventually I would have truly become fat, all from wheat. The foregoing is what I experienced, The worst foods, if they can be called food, are: processed foods not food really, sugar, wheat, pasteurized milk, butter, homogenized dairy, pesticide ridden produce, meats from grain fed animals. So, I’m going to brew up some organic decaf coffee, at organic raw cream and enjoy the sunny day in Washington State. This afternoon, I’ll take a long walk, eat some wild salmon leftovers, some lettuce from an organic garden, etc., and any added beverage will probably be raw milk, or organic Telsi tea

          • Milk, dairy or neither. Are you suggesting the grains fed cows be fed to those starving? In the first place wheat production will feed 11 billion people, the last I heard we have a little over 7 billion on earth. Insofar as slaughtering cows for their meat contribution, and giving them growth hormones to increase their milk output, what does that have to do with milk, good or bad, as a food source. Raw milk from cows on pasture are eventually slaughtered usually when their usefulness tanks. Sorry, but life is not a sweet dream from the hand of an unrealistic idealist, though many religions claim all ends well that ends but I won’t get into that. I worry about casein and casomorphin since I love milk and I think I’m an addict to its morphine effects. I’m past eighty, run, walk, sleep well, still a man, but I’m a bit critical of addictions to anything, especially drugs. Sugar, coffee, morphine, oxycodone, heroin, cocaine, etc. and drugs many people are addicted to , and gluten, too, and the only thing I use of all those things is the morphine in dairy. I have quit many times and became tense, irritable, stressed, lost sleep, appetite, etc., and my monthly food cost was nearly 1000.00. (2915.00 for three months). All organic, grass-fed meat, poultry, pork, lamb, wild salmon, no sugar, grains, etc., and so, the one thing I’m told is bad for me is raw dairy from cows on pasture but from guys like Cohen, T. Colin Campbell, etc., I’m older than Campbell but look 30 years younger, which isn’t saying much since he looks to be over 100. All that vegan nonsense that leads to Alzheimer’s, or dementia or anemia, etc. I had a health food business and the people with the most health problems were vegetarians and vegans. I hired a fruitarian once but had to stop every 50 miles so he could pee. He was wildly irrational and nearly drove me nuts. The longest lived people in Europe are high milk drinkers or dairy advocates, I refer to Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway. Maybe they do get osteoporosis but most countries do. If quitting milk would cause me to look, act, and advocate what McDougal, Campbell, Cohen etc., promote I would become a wine drinking carnivore instead. What are the keys to health. Organic produce, grass-fed meats, wild salmon from Alaska, a few nuts, high quality water and not 2 quarts a day unless one is hiking in the heat. Interval training, some weight lifting, a loving relationship with someone, a woman in my case, enough finances to afford life, be generous and like to help others in a personal way, that is, enjoy their happiness from the help I give, which I do and always have. I don’t write it off my taxes like Bill Gates or any other plutocrat, I offer money, food, help moving things, and love. Industrial produce kills far more small animals, and I include bees, kind of necessary I hear for our survival, than those who raise animals humanely by thousands of times and more. Where did this idea of separating animals from our produce come from? From plutocratic mentality where everything is based on profit. What has happened is, we’ve allowed artificial and chemical pesticides and killing us slowly, but much, much faster than natural lifespan and with many more illnesses to ruin our lives. If, however, living with chronic illnesses is not a problem that lead to drug use just to keep us going is acceptable, then nothing really matters, we become a pawn of the drug companies and doctors who “Practice” medicine. Food makes us what we are and at this point with 100% of my diet the best I know of, if my one questionable food is milk and I feel as I do, I might actually be on the right track or slightly off. Either way, one could say, “Well, if you quit dairy you will do even better.” I have tried that already and it never went well. It’s not raw dairy its the millions of tons of wheat each year, in fact, over 800 millions of tons of wheat each year world wide of a grain that is toxic, indigestible, is gluteomorphin, addictive and makes us fat. It kind of happened to me, if I gain 10 pounds that’s a sign I’m getting fat and if I kept going like that eventually I would have truly become fat, all from wheat. The foregoing is what I experienced, The worst foods, if they can be called food, are: processed foods not food really, sugar, wheat, pasteurized milk, butter, homogenized dairy, pesticide ridden produce, meats from grain fed animals. So, I’m going to brew up some organic decaf coffee, at organic raw cream and enjoy the sunny day in Washington State. This afternoon, I’ll take a long walk, eat some wild salmon leftovers, some lettuce from an organic garden, etc., and any added beverage will probably be raw milk, or organic Telsi tea

          • More than a an occasional soy product consumption causes bone loss over time. I experienced it and also did a research paper on it.

          • Good Lord!

            Monica, their bone health was related to them not moving around enough. Just like us Americans. It has nothing to do with the dairy they were drinking.

            If it were so, all of us would be in trouble.

            • I love Jersey, raw whole milk from pastured animals. I have quit milk numerous times and in a couple days I’m difficult to be around, sleep is disrupted, and so forth. It’s a thing of fighting for the right to drink whatever one wishes right or wrong, however milk is high in sugar, not added, but in the liquid itself, for instance, (figures are close not exact) a cup of milk has 13 G of sugar, not the granulated white toxic stuff, but milk sugar. I used to drink a couple quarts per day, which gave me 104 G of sugar. It was great milk but I knew something wasn’t right, not an intellectual right, but a physiological right. I’ve gone low, low carb and to be successful I had to cut out the milk, however, I found a sweet alternative to milk, raw cream from Jersey cows at a half cup per day, or 4 oz. The sky didn’t fall, I got my dairy fix, and here’s what happens to my blood sugar: it went from 83 to 92 after eating an egg (from a pastured hen) cooked in coconut oil, added sea salt, a dark cocoa drink with a dash of clove powder, cinnamon, whipping cream and filtered water and one half teaspoon of raw honey, plus a teaspoon of butter from Ireland and a teaspoon of coconut oil. I died, or some would have thought I might but was resurrected by the realization I could eliminate my chances of diabetes or pre-diabetes. Has anyone looked or heard the symptoms of pre-diabetes? Mercy, here’s the short list:

              •Being overweight
              •Being 45 years or older
              •A family history of diabetes
              •Low levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (the “good” cholesterol)
              •High triglycerides
              •High blood pressure
              •A history of gestational diabetes
              •Being African-American, American Indian, Asian-American, Pacific Islander or Hispanic American/Latino
              Blurry Vision
              Excessive Thirst
              Stubborn Wounds or Infections
              Extreme Fatigue
              Sudden, Unexplained Weight Gain or Loss
              Darkened Areas of Skin

              My blood sugar is already down to 91, in other words, it’s not increasing, it’s going down. So, what does the foregoing have to do with milk? What about carbs? Fat? Protein, and then the original comment reference, why drink milk, it’s not recommended by many conservative, open minded, radical and plain crazy people. The question is, disregard the milk thing, and everything else, what’s the goal here? It’s not just good health, but extremely good health, good looks, strong body, disease free (redundant), sound sleep, happy, fun and confident. It all happens when we get it right and even if we have major problems, most if not all of them are reversed through the right diet, attitude, various exercise, meditation, etc., choices. Insofar as milk goes, and that means cheese, too, but whipping cream and butter in sane amounts does no harm. However, combine sweets with butter, fats, etc., and bad things happen. I will cut out the honey in the cocoa drink next time so as to remain fanatical, but healthy. Speaking of fanatic, any diet that break from SAD is seen by most folks as too much trouble, goofy, confusing, unproven, and why bother. One often feels like they’re a little strange, less so now than a few years ago. Figuring out diet is quite easy, try paleo, see how you feel after a month or so, the same with high carb diets vegans and vegetarians get into. Personally they are disastrous according to the nutrients both fail to include, and looking at frail vegans and vegetarians in their sixties and over, unless the vegetarians are big on eggs, occasional fish like salmon, and high fat dairy. Still, they have to figure out the B12 deficit. How to get things right with a little science thrown in? Buy blood sugar tester and monitor blood readings; have a CRP test to get your inflammation level, a lipid test, and comprehensive metabolic test. There are others, of course, but the sun comes in April in California and southern states, we have to wait until June in Washington and even then it’s a barely adequate exposure. If one lived in the Alps, and their only survival foods were milk, cheese, yogurt, curds and whey, the milk opposition group would find when milk is a survival food it’s much different than a store to refrigerator convenience. Its nutrients and fat are used each day, after all the weather is rather chilly in the Alps and the tribes who used milk had meat only once a week, very little produce and that was only for about three months a year, what kept them alive was high fat cheese. Of course if they were sitting around in central heating homes watching TV, glued to their computer screen or sitting more than standing or walking, that would be different, but they dealt with the elements and in that case, and others, go for dairy. Besides, we’re not like any other animal, for instance a Sperm Whale has an 18 pound brain, which is 6 times larger than our little three ounce brain, but to equal our brain to body ratio it would have to have a 641 pound brain as they weight over 30,000 pounds, in other words, we’re the brightest and most neurotic and dangerous of all animals, pity the planet. So, FM, you mean well but your research doesn’t take into consideration the life style of the Swedish people far removed from needing dairy at the level they consume it. Obviously they haven’t got it right but it’s not the food, it’s what they do with their bodies and minds each day that causes things to go awry. Your comment does have an attitude, and I rather like that.

    • Bill, have you read your link, especially the conclusion? Also there is a reply to the study that does an excellent job of explaining the flaws in the study.

  12. Would Chris recommend drinking non-organic full-fat commercial milk that is sold in grocery stores? Or is he implying that we drink organic milk or raw milk in this article? I’m not really up-to-date about milk, but is there any truth to it creating autoimmunity (through breakdown of gut barrier) or the talk about all the hormones needed to make a calf grow and these hormones causing cancer cell growth in humans?

    • This article is ridiculous!!!!its obvious that industrial milk and dairy are totally unhealthy and there are 100 of studies that confirm it!Most of the calcium contained in cow’s milk is bound by the milk chemical casein which makes it far too crude for proper absorption by the human intestinal membranes! also there is quantitatively more PHOSPHOROUS in cows milk than there is calcium.To metabolize that much phosphorous, the body requires extra amounts of calcium,which it extracts from the bones,teeth and muscles,this lids to calcium deficiency in this parts of the body.Not saying about much more dangers… honestly logically Cows Milk is for calves like cats milk is for kittens!it sad that this “doctor” dont even know the truth basing his article on 1 research which probably has been founded by milk producers….

      • I dont know if you know this but phosphorus according to the periodic table is an ‘element’ so it doesnt need to be ‘metabolised’ and its uptake in the gi tract is by passive diffusion, which means its uptake is controlled by the conc in the blood so by negative feedback the body doesnt take more that it needs. the A1/A2 beta casein is a protein and guess what happens to proteins in the stomach….thats right it is digested by enzymes. much like phosphorus, calcium is also an element, and in its activated form in the intestines its uptake is controlled once again by passive diffusion. looks like the 100 of studies you read arent enough to teach you basic biochemical knowledge, but sure its the ‘doctor’ that doesnt know what he’s talking about.

        • not sure you know this Xavi but just because phosphorus is an element doesn’t mean it doesn’t form compounds. compounds and organic compounds even of elements can make them either more or less bioavailable than other compounds or an elemental (catatonic) form. Phosphorus tends to be found in oxidative states

          More importantly the Swedish study previously mentioned that studied 100,000 people for twenty years in the trial found that milk (not dairy per se) was associated with lower life expectancy (double the mortality hazard risk with 3 glasses a day over less than one and significantly more hip fractures).

          http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-milk-good-for-our-bones/

  13. Last Friday I had blood work and an overall physical done.

    Guess what?

    Yup, this milk drinker’s health is above average.

    And, it showed that the two to three glasses of milk I drink almost every day has not affected my bones.

    But farmers, and others who drink a lot of milk well into their old age already knows this. Just from using common sense.

    Folks, just have a balanced diet. Eat some greens, especially kale…

    and be more active. People with the healthiest bones are more active.

    That’s all there is to it.

    It’s time for a glass of ice-cold milk and chocolate chip cookies!

      • It’s not about that, Kate, it’s about calcium. Talk to your doctor. You’d be surprised how much BS there is about calcium in our body, along with the 100% Grade A bullcrock about how milk is bad for everyone.

        Just a simple physical tells all.

          • Look whose talking?

            Think before you post, “PJ.”

            I’m with Chris and the others about the misconceptions of milk.

            I’m totally astounded that we have been drinking milk for who knows how long, and yet we are all still here.

            I’m well into my 70’s, come from a farm family, and we drank a lot of milk, ate good food and kept busy.

            It’s funny how some people say that cows milk is for calves. Our cats lap that stuff up! In fact, we saved a couple of kittens by feeding them just milk for awhile there.

            Good article, thank you Chris.

            • “And yet we are still here”. What do you think I’m implying here? That you have a drink of milk and you vaporise? It’s an impact over time, as shown by many scientific non dairy funded studies. Keep ignoring the science though, milk – it does a body good!

              • An impact over time, huh?

                Yeah, you are right, PJ.

                At 77, I better stop while I still can, even though I am still working on the farm.

                What WAS I thinking?!

                My brother, who is at 79, better stop before it’s to late, even though he is till very active.

                My parents, who drank milk all their lives would have lived almost 100, instead of into their healthy 90’s.

                And of the millions upon millions of milk drinkers, they better stop before they break a hip.

                But let me finish off the last of the milk in the fridge first, okay?

                Thanks.

                • Well thank goodness you’re not a statistician as well. A sample size of 4 does not really make a great study. How about looking at the worldwide population. I think there’s a trend in there correlating milk and osteoporosis. A somewhat bigger sample size than 4.

                • We are the only four in the world drinking milk and are as healthy as all get out, huh? .

                  Son, you are in your own little world. And I’m done exchanging posts with you. It’s just too weird.

              • Correlation does not imply causation. You are comparing apples and oranges. I can tell you from experience that raw milk can cure the hay fever, food, and cat allergies and intestinal problems that pasteurized milk causes.

            • I just have to say that most cats are actually lactose intolerant. They lose the ability needed as kittens to digest milk as they grow into adulthood.

              • Lactose intolerance has nothing to do with the ability to digest milk. Intolerance means discomfort after consumption of processed dairy products. It has nothing to do with absorption. Most lactose intolerants are not lactose malabsorbers and most lactose malabsorbers are not lactose intolerant. Lactose malabsorption is when some lactose is allowed to ferment in the intestines. It usually doesn’t cause discomfort.

              • They drink milk, regardless of age. But I wasn’t talking about intolerance. It just strikes me funny when some say silly things like: cows milk is for calves when they are trying to prove some sort of point.

            • Martha,
              Traditional Cows milk is not for grown humans or grown cats. I’m glad you saved some kittens with cows milk but many cats- and people are lactose intolerant and dairy can trigger inflammation and other problems. Cultured raw dairy products like yogurt or sour cream are a better option for people than traditional milk because the lactose is broken down during fermentation.

            • Your cats were very lucky, Martha. Cats can’t the lactose in cows milk, it can make them extremely ill with diarrhoea. I can only assume the milk was raw, not pasturised, and it was likely only thanks to the antibodies in the milk that they lived.

              • Also, it’s not a “silly thing” to say that Cows milk is for Calves any more than it is “silly” to say Dog milk is for puppies. It’s a fact. Humans were never meant to drink cows’ milk any more than we were meant to drink the milk of a pig or dog or horse.
                All mammals produce milk to feed their own young, once the young wean at a natural age, they stop having milk (you know, unless someone extracts it from an animal and puts it in front of them, but even then, most adult animals would walk away from another species’ milk unless they’d been routinely given it in infancy and were conditioned to drink it.)

                • I eat organic produce, meat from grass fed and finished cattle, salmon, nuts, seeds, and a cup of raw milk per day from pastured cows. Even if the milk was from grain fed cows and pasteurized (which it would have to be if sold in markets) is it going to add a day or take away a day of my lifespan? Probably not, but if it does, a day or two don’t matter. This milk thing, which I joined in has become boring. Don’t drink milk, do drink milk, it’s no longer moot, vegans don’t drink milk, so they say none of us should drink milk, really, vegetarians on a lacto diet drink milk, so they advocate milk, omnivores don’t give a damn what either do other than quit insisting all of must stop drinking milk. Being an omnivore part of the day, a carnivore some of the day, a vegan while snacking on fruit or a carrot, a vegetarian when I go eggs and lacto, this has become a waste of time. I’m done.

        • . The acid alkaline debate is still unproven but there are actually many studies showing increased consumption of milk is associated with increased fracture risk in women. Most of the studies showing milk is good for bones are mediocre at best and a lot are done or funded by the national dairy counsel. Cultured dairy products like yogurt and cheese are a better option bc as they are cultured they become acid neutral to our body as lactose and other sugars are broken down by bacteria.

    • Anectodes are not evidence.Just because you,a daory consumer,are healthy it does not mean that the Sweden study is wrong(just like that famous anectode:My grandma drank a gallon of milk every day,and she lived for 95 years,so it will work for me too).People need to stop using their personal experiences as evidence

  14. “What’s your connection with the dairy industry Perry?”

    Didn’t you hear?

    I’m the president of the association.

    lol … wow … somebody is off his meds.

    The doctors are going to have a busy week, with the tens of millions of milk drinkers, that is.

    Shoot, I better set up an appointment right now before it’s too late!

  15. John, you are living proof that not having a good, balanced diet in general was the problem, not the milk.

    It’s like eating salads all day, and not getting in enough of other nutrients from other foods. Then that person gets a health issue–and then blames the salad.

    Like I and others have said: if milk is so bad, the doctor’s offices would be overflowing–there would be a health-warning issue on milk.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to have a glass of milk and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

    • What’s your connection with the dairy industry Perry? You comment on these posts with unscientific and frankly weak arguments, and avoid the science at all costs. How about you address:
      1) how the largest study ever undertaken on milk and health (http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g6015) finds a link to osteoporosis, and early death for milk consumption.
      2) the massive world-wide correlation to dairy consumption and osteoporosis. And please provide supporting evidence if you’re going to state the difference is exercise, sun exposure, genetics etc.

      • “Given the observational study designs with the inherent possibility of residual confounding and reverse causation phenomena, a cautious interpretation of the results is recommended.” Do you even read the so called evidence you post? And please provide supporting evidence if you’re going to state the difference is not exercise, sun exposure, genetics etc. Do you even know the meaning of the word science? If you want people to buy your broccoli shakes you’re going to need a much better sales pitch.

        • It was a study of about 100,000 people showing strong correlations between milk, bone fractures and early death, they had to make a statement about how it was observational, and somehow that invalidates the entire study? Who’s struggling with science?

          • That was a direct quote from your link. Your hyperbole was clearly not. Here’s another quote from your link: “For every glass of milk in women no reduction was observed in fracture risk with higher milk consumption for any fracture (1.02, 1.00 to 1.04) or for hip fracture (1.09, 1.05 to 1.13). ”

            Chris Kresser says: “Although you won’t see me sporting a milk mustache in a “Got Milk?” ad anytime soon, based on the evidence, it’s safe to say that dairy does not contribute to osteoporosis, and full-fat dairy (PREFERABLY RAW) can be a beneficial addition to the diet for many people.” He is not recommending pasteurized milk and does Chris even say anything about pasteurized milk and longevity?

            • You seem to be somehow bypassing the conclusion each time.

              Conclusions High milk intake was associated with higher mortality in one cohort of women and in another cohort of men, and with higher fracture incidence in women.

              That’s the core of the study, the result, what you look for, what you base your actions on. Any reason why you ignore this? Think the study is utterly flawed? Please explain why!

              • Many of these studies have titles and or conclusions that bear no relation to the body of the study. The title and the conclusion are meaningless if they don’t relate to the evidence and data within the study. You are not the first person to give a link to a study that proves their opponents argument because they only read the title or the conclusion, or as in this case, because they read their own meaning into it. The conclusion doesn’t say: “A study of about 100,000 people showed strong correlations between milk, bone fractures and early death.”

              • No it actually says: “HIGH milk intake was ASSOCIATED with higher mortality in ONE COHORT of women and IN ANOTHER COHORT of men, and with higher fracture incidence IN WOMEN.” I’m assuming we are both men.

              • Mike, you don’t see a difference between: “A study of about 100,000 people showed strong correlations between milk, bone fractures and early death.” and (In 2 separate studies of both men and women, together totaling about 100,000 people) “HIGH (Very high, which means they probably had asthma, food allergies, and god knows what other autoimmune disorders) milk (pasteurized and homogenized) intake was ASSOCIATED (not correlated) with (slightly) higher mortality in ONE COHORT (not in both studies) of women (and not the men in the study) and IN ANOTHER COHORT (not in both studies) of men (and not the women in the study), and with higher fracture incidence IN WOMEN (and not the men in either study).”?

          • And Mike, from your own link, here’s another quote that you must have missed: “Fermented milk products, we found to be associated with reduced rates of mortality and fracture.”

                • And as per the largest study ever conducted into dairy, milk does cause osteoporosis, while un-fermented dairy doesn’t. So should you just ignore that and keep drinking your milk because the title said ‘dairy’?

                • You’re right, it’s not quality science and you shouldn’t trust it. You should trust the science (proganda) provided to you by the dairy industry. Thanks to their vast resources, they managed to buy their way into the food pyramid, and provide you with a nutritious drink fit for humans!

              • The state does not consider the 9 million raw milk consumers in the U.S. part of the “dairy industry.” Who do you think is pushing your plant-based diet? It’s the pharmaceutical industry and the mutant GMO junk-food industry. These guys make the dairy industry look like boy-scouts.

              • I never said you should trust the (propaganda) provided to you by the processed dairy industry. I don’t. Thanks to their vast resources and help from the pharmaceutical industry they have managed to buy their way into the government and through regulation, eliminate their competition from farmers selling raw milk directly to consumers just so they can provide you with a toxic energy supplement rather than the super-food formerly known as fresh milk.

    • The doctor’s offices ARE overflowing! And so are the nursing homes (check out the rehab units with all of the people with broken hips and joint replacements). All it takes is a little intelligence, and some basic research of basic group health, to find the answers. Search the relationship between osteoporosis and dairy consumption per capita around the world, for instance. I find it fascinating that the countries that use almost no milk, also have zero osteoporosis. And yet, the countries with the highest milk consumption have by far the highest rates of osteoporosis. Perhaps that’s not a scientific-study, and there may certainly be other issues that are indicated. But only someone with an agenda would try to refute the actual evidence. And we haven’t even broached the association of conventional dairy and cancer…
      Personally, I think it’s more than just milk (any animal protein is suspect), and may have very little to do with acidity/alkalinity of the blood. But the evidence is overwhelming that dairy, and for that matter animal, protein is not healthy in the long run for our bones, or our general health. But that’s beyond the subject that this misguided page was about. Obviously there is a lot of mis-information being spread around about health these days. Some by multi-billion $ industries that are trying to encourage more people to buy their products despite the obvious dangers to the planet and to our health. And some is by people who just don’t understand the facts. The truth is, you can find information to support virtually any hypothesis on the internet these days. It’s like gold-mining…the hard part is weeding through the tons of worthless rocks to find the real gold.
      Several large and lengthy studies completed as long as 30 years ago by Loma Linda University, a very well respected university hospital system in southern California, have shown clear health benefits of diets without milk. In one study, a large group of otherwise healthy and active women, 35 years of age, who had consumed dairy all of their lives were found to have lost 30% of their bone mass, while a similar group of vegan women (same age and lifestyle) who had not grown up drinking milk had lost only 5% of their bone mass.
      Obviously exercise is another factor that affects bone mass, but that was not a difference in this study. And there are many similar valid, scientific studies that show virtually identical results that seem to be ignored by this and other bloggers. Others study people groups in different regions around the world and these show similar results. My best advice is to honestly search for the facts (we’re all intelligent people and don’t need a degree to be wise) and draw your own conclusions based on the solid evidence.

  16. I am living proof that dairy causes osteoporosis. For my entire life about 30-40% of my diet was dairy. Oatmeal in the morning, mashed potatoes at night, cheese layered on everything followed with a glass of milk for almost every meal. I started noticing pains in my joints about two years ago, and then last year my knees started giving out. My weights in the weight room decreased and I had no idea what was going on. I took a dexa scan and it was -4 and I’m under 30. I informed the doctors of my diet and they couldn’t see how I would have osteoporosis at such a young age especially with all the dairy I was consuming.

    Well, I’ve read about the dairy being so acidic that it leaches out calcium to balance out your acidic state. However, that wasn’t my case as I took a tissue sample to measure the calcium and other minerals in my bones and tissues. My calcium was normal but my magnesium was severely low. As it turns out dairy has a calcium to magnesium ratio of 10:1 causing a magnesium deficiency over time. The receptor cites in your bones are in competition for calcium and magnesium and when calcium wins it pulls out the magnesium from your bones thus causing osteoporosis.

    • And that’s one of the many problems with dairy that people don’t understand – it has a nutrient profile which is perfect for growing baby cows, but it’s very bad for us. As you mention, it’s got a lot of calcium, and calcium is a magnesium antagonist. Hence many people who consume dairy will have low magnesium, and poor bone health. Also poor teeth – calcium is the chalk, magnesium is the glue. Hyenas have the incredibly strong teeth, made up with one of the highest percentages of magnesium.

      Then consider that magnesium is involved in so many critical body functions, and the problem becomes even more serious.

      Hopefully you can resolve this over time however with magnesium supplementation, good luck.

      • Raw cows milk has a nutrient profile which is perfect for growing calves, but not as good for human babies. Pasteurized homogenized milk is bad for both. You have failed to prove that even pasteurized milk causes “poor bone health” and vegans have some of the worst teeth.

        Hyenas consumes animals of various types and sizes(including domestic stock), zebras, gazelles, buffaloes and wildebeests and even other hyenas, carrion, bones, vegetable matter and other animals droppings. They are not choosy as they will consume almost anything ranges from birds, lizards, insects, snakes, carrion, bones, vegetable matter and other animals’ droppings. They occasionally behave as scavengers. Cubs begin to eat meat from kills near the den at about 5 months, but they are suckled for as long as 12 to 18 months, an unusually long time for carnivores. The powerful jaws and digestive tract of the hyena allow it to process and obtain nutrients from skin and bones. The only parts of prey not fully digested are hair, horns and hooves; these are regurgitated in the form of pellets. As hyenas hunt mostly at night and devour all parts, little evidence remains of their actual meals.

    • So, you eat a diet lacking in magnesium and well over every recommended dietary recommendation for dairy products, and you say that dairy products alone are responsible for your issues?

      I think your issues are caused by bad dietary choices and a somewhat suspect level of critical thinking.

  17. “…I just came here to find out how I can increase my bone density. Now all this talk of milk is bad… milk is good. . . .”

    Christina, believe it or not, exercising in itself helps to build bone density.

    There are a lot of people who do not take in the RDA of calcium (RDA is 1,200 grams, but most people don’t get even half that), but their bones are stronger because they go out and walk, go to the gym, whatever. . . .

    And since so many of us drink milk and are healthy, there really is no confusion on milk.

  18. Opinion does not a fact make!

    Clinical research shows that dairy products have little or no benefit for bones. A 2005 review published in Pediatrics showed that milk consumption does not improve bone integrity in children.2 In a more recent study, researchers tracked the diets, physical activity, and stress fracture incidences of adolescent girls for seven years, and concluded that dairy products and calcium do not prevent stress fractures in adolescent girls.3 Similarly, the Harvard Nurses’ Health Study, which followed more than 72,000 women for 18 years, showed no protective effect of increased milk consumption on fracture risk.1

    Lactose Intolerance
    Lactose intolerance is common among many populations, affecting approximately 95 percent of Asian-Americans, 74 percent of Native Americans, 70 percent of African-Americans, 53 percent of Mexican-Americans, and 15 percent of Caucasians.33 Symptoms, which include gastrointestinal distress, diarrhea, and flatulence, occur because these individuals do not have the enzyme lactase to digest the milk sugar lactose. When digested, the breakdown products of lactose are two simple sugars: glucose and galactose. Nursing children have active enzymes that break down galactose, but as we age, many of us lose much of this capacity.34

    • Your data also shows that dairy does not cause osteoporosis. And most lactose intolerants are not lactose malabsorbers.

        • Intolerance means discomfort after consumption of processed dairy products. It has nothing to do with absorption. Not only are most lactose intolerants not lactose malabsorbers, most lactose malabsorbers are not lactose intolerant. Lactose malabsorption is when some lactose is allowed to ferment in the intestines. It usually doesn’t cause discomfort.

  19. “But I just want to know if milk is good for my bones, or not.”

    Don, if it wasn’t, and if it’s as bad as they say, don’t you think we’d know about it by now?

    There are hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of milk drinkers, and we are doing just fine.

    That alone is proof enough.

  20. Yeah, I’m with you Christina. I just watched one of the videos below. ” drinking milk is like wearing elephant pants”
    . Oh that was really scientific.. It was propaganda about the supposed rights of cows. That is another debate in itself and has nothing to do with whether or not milk is bad for you.
    If you don’t want to drink milk because you think cows are mistreated then fine… Don’t.
    But I just want to know if milk is good for my bones, or not.

  21. Wow…. All this arguing. I just came here to find out how I can increase my bone density. Now all this talk of milk is bad… milk is good.. What is the average person supposed to think. Perhaps this is why so many people have poor health, because they believe this or that which may not necessarily be correct. I am more confused than ever.

    • Christina, if you were supposed to drink milk as an adult then your mother would provide it. Cow’s milk is for baby cows!
      Humans get their milk from their mother. By about 24 months babies lose the enzyme that breaks down human milk, round about they time they are normally weaned off milk.

      Humans are the only species that have been fooled into thinking that drinking milk from another species as an adult is fine.

      No where in nature does another species do this, what makes humans so special?

      Even if you look at our closest “relatives” the apes, they don’t drink milk as adults. Infact some of the strongest mammals are herbivores.

      If you want to increase your bone density, eat right and exercise the bones by stressing them gently.

      To your health.

      • As babies we put everything in our mouths. That is how we find out what is good to eat. It is only natural for any creature to eat the best food available to them. That is what makes a vegan diet so unnatural. And why they have more heart disease.

  22. “Correlation is not causation. There needs to be more research. If there really was a correlation then generations of people would have been having osteoporosis. So where are the billions of cases of milk drinkers with it. Does your studies tell you that? No?… Hmmm junk science!!!”

    Exactly!

    I wish more people would use their brain.

      • From the study you mentioned comes also this:

        “Interestingly, the study also found that fermented milk products (cheese and yogurt) significantly decreased mortality and fractures among these women. For each serving of these fermented dairy products, the rate of mortality and hip fractures was reduced by 10-15%. The researchers pin the negative effects of liquid milk on D-galactose, a breakdown product of lactose that has been shown to be pro-inflammatory. Milk has much more D-galactose than does cheese or yogurt.”

        So cheese and yoghurt make people actually live longer and have stronger bones.
        How about that 🙂

  23. Very interesting post.

    Is it true that the countries with the highest consumption of dairy are also those with the highest recorded diagnoses of osteoporosis?

    Is there any obvious (or not so obvious) explanation of why this should be?

      • that’s because they live in their own manutre, they are constantly stressed,traumatized they are given antibiotics, machines sucking every drop of milk (that was ment for her own baby,who was snatched from her right after birth so that human can consume milk,they cry day in and out for theirr babies just like you or me would do it it was done to us) they develope infection in this boobs from all the sucking of the machine so painfull. watch this :

        1) https://youtu.be/GDEc87fomio

        2) https://youtu.be/OVxh3ZFSslg

        3)https://youtu.be/GzS8p727gvM

        4) https://youtu.be/8ANCusVd_Kk

        • The babies are not taken from the cows… Where do you get this crap from? No farmer would do that first of all because the mother takes better care of them and that it allows for a healthier calf to be raised. Second, they all produce 6- 8 gallons of milk EVERY day. The calf only needs 1 to 2. The farmer will not be missing that. Third, the cows LIKE to be milked as it relieves the pressure of the 6- 8 gallons of milk the make. You have this idea of some torture farm where the cruel man sucks away all the joy from the cows life. They are not people. They are cows!!!! They are HAPPY grazing and wandering the pastures and getting milked and having babies!! It is what we have bred them to do for literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of YEARS!!!! It is not something that can just stop overnight unless you want to be the one responsible for millions of cows suffering daily if we listened to you and stopped milking altogether…. Where are your people’s heads. Without milk there would be millions of starving children all over the world as not every mother makes enough milk for their human child or makes milk their child can even drink….. Did you think about that. Which would you want your child to drink some GMO soy milk (93% of all soy is you know) or some corn syrup/ sugar beet based sugar formula(mostly GMO as well) OR some cows milk from an animal we have bred to do and is happy to do exactly what it does, make milk?…..

          • @Robert, Have you been to an actual dairy farm ?  How do you know if the calfs are not separated from their mother? btw did you watched the video links I provided?
            “You have this idea of some torture farm where the cruel man sucks away all the joy from the cows life. They are not people. They are cows!!!!”
            Just because they are not human does that make anything done to them ok? Their life may seem insignificant to us, just like someone else can have this very same thought about your life or my life, but that does make your life or my life any less valuable or insignificant ? Just because we can not comprehend something about some being, does not make it all right to do the tthings that we would never be ok to be done to us.

            “They are HAPPY grazing and wandering the pastures and getting milked and having babies!! ”
            the reality is the exact opposite. Don’t believe me for even one second 🙂 go to all the dairy farms from those that you buy all your milk,cheese etc from, be the witness that’s all I have say 🙂

            About starving children?

            Check out is picture it sums it up very well 🙂
            http://pinterest.com/pin/266627240414149215/?s=3&m=whatsapp

            Please read these articles 🙂
            1) http://comfortablyunaware.com/blog/the-world-hunger-food-choice-connection-a-summary/

            2) http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

            3) http://gentleworld.org/could-veganism-end-world-hunger/

            Want to know what it is doing to the environment? 
            Please watch the documentary called “Cowspiracy ”

            Also this one : https://youtu.be/Z0xO8RiRffM

            and this one too :
            https://youtu.be/XGuduhfGSjU

            • watch this video too please ,it’s the awsomest information packed video about the effects meat,dairy,fish industry causes to our world,the environment :

            • oh btw, cows really get discomfort if they were not milked. I know you are going to say oh they were wild animals and no one to milk them before, you are just imagining things. But no, maybe domesticated cows have evolved to produce more milk and on a daily basis, so not being milked causes buildup of milk in their sacs causing discomfort and pain, it is like having your bladder full, but unlike the bladder the milk sacs doesn’t have muscles to force that liquid out, it have to be removed by an external stimulus. So yeah, milk need to be milked or cows will be in pain.
              And what I don’t like the most is people calling for animal rights, when people rights are being taken in 80% of the world. Poverty, wars, famine and then comes some douchebag says that cows are in pain because we milk them. Humans are in pain, humans are being killed coldly, humans are being tortured every day. Just because they are poor, diseased or dirty doesn’t mean they are sentient beings who feel pain, emotions and hunger way more than any animal does. So go clean your mind and come back again.
              P.S: if humans were meant to be herbivores, we wouldn’t have that vast number of enzymes, transporters and receptors responsible for digesting, absorbing and utilizing meat or animal products.
              If you are a vegeterian or vegan, that is a decision you choose for yourself, you don’t have to argue with every single person who doesn’t think the same way as you do. It is not common for the exception to argue with the norm in how they choose to live. It is like having a gay person saying that we are all wrong being straight, he just knows its his decision that he can fight for and argue about for himself, not to force someone else to be like him. So please, you are vegan, good for you, but don’t try to force me to be like you, cause it is not my choice, it is yours, so why the hell should I change mine.

            • Sorry, but your comments are based on unscientific dogma and baloney – I eat grass fed meat, pastured poultry and wild-caught fish with lots of veg and ZERO monocrops (and almost zero fruit except in summer) and my environmental footprint (PLUS my contribution to animal death) is *far*, far smaller than the average vegan’s.

              Read more! And perhaps start with these:
              (1) The Vegetarian Myth – Leirre Keith
              (2) Meat: A Benign Extravagance – Simon Fairlie

              Veganism will not (cannot!) save the world, because vegans have to eat much MUCH more food than I (and others who eat a diet based on our ancestral template) to get even CLOSE to the same nutrients that I get on a flesh/fat/vegetable diet.

              I know I’m coming across as angry, but I’m not (okay, I AM angry that nice, thoughtful, well-meaning, loving people are being duped and conned by the charlatans of the vegan/vegetarian world). I applaud EVERY vegan and vegetarians reasons for choosing their diet – I really do – but if they REALLY want to reduce cruelty, reduce the death, have a REAL impact on the environment AND THRIVE instead of simply (and barely) ‘survive’ then they should look at the science, ALL the science, look at our bodies and our history and adopt a thoughtful, healthy and nutrient RICH paleo/primal/ancestral diet. Only then can you even BEGIN to be the planet/animal lover you hope to be.

            • @Beefwalker: ” I eat grass fed meat, pastured poultry and wild-caught fish with lots of veg and ZERO monocrops (and almost zero fruit except in summer) and my environmental footprint (PLUS my contribution to animal death) is *far*, far smaller than the average vegan’s.”

              Unless you are eating these animals raw you are contributing to their death.

              As for ” (and others who eat a diet based on our ancestral template) ”

              Your ancestors ate grain and fruit and rarely meat, when they could catch it, unlike the SAD which is meat at every meal.

              As for ” look at our bodies” we have nothing in common with meat eaters [lions/tigers] with their fangs and short digestive tracts. More so, we have more in common with other vegetarian mammals [elephants/apes/hippos/cows] with flat teeth for grinding and longer digestive tract to break down vegetation.

              Nutritionally, Vegans get more from plant based foods than animal. Modern animal farming is far removed from the ancestral ways that you might as well not eat it. They are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics that are not human tested and which don’t pass out of their bodies when they are killed.

              Rely on Science, sure; logic too if you must, just make it factual. Otherwise you are only kidding yourself.

              They choices you make regarding your health are yours alone and no one can force you to “become vegan”. That said, people eventually come to the realisation that what they have been told by big Ag/Big Business is not really true and they need to make choices for themselves.

              • First of all Chimpanzees, our closest “relative” in the mammalian circle, eat meat, insects, etc., as do apes. Second, if all the animals alive were allowed to proliferate humans would soon be killing them just to make room for themselves. Along the way they might cook a few. Third, maybe in a warmer climate than that of we northern Europeans, it might, I say might, be possible to eat vegan year round, but it’s never been done with any health benefits. Fourth, where in the world did you get the idea that since we don’t resemble lions and tigers we aren’t biologically suited to eat meat? The last I heard lions and tigers were carnivores, unless of course you get Ellen Degeneres in the loop as she hyped a vegan cat food for the descendants of lions and tigers. Fifth, the great advantage for those of us who don’t go vegan, our brains don’t shrink as the vegan brain has to and does, chalk up one for less competition to we savages eating an occasional egg, chop or chicken leg. Sixth, even those savage non-vegan Africans inland drink the milk of cows whose blood they also tap, and the coastal Africans, wow, they are real killers, they catch fish and eat them and end up with perfect teeth, that is, until they adopted Western diets and their toxic fast and processed items, certainly they can’t be counted as food since they contain more chemicals than anything resembling food as our savage ancestors thrived on to get us here. Sixth, Northern Europeans relied on butter, it can be frozen, and cheese, ditto frozen, fermented foods, dried fish, and no fruit, vegetables except for sweet potatoes in some areas, and the “dry/frosty” period went on from October to March, let’s see, that’s six month without a hint of produce, after that a couple months before any substantial vegan food “erupted” from the earth, and I can just hear a starved vegan, “Halleluiah, look, look, a carrot!” Seventh, the vegan thing is not just weird, it’s dangerous with few exceptions. First of all, in a vegan world, they’d cease to exist if they held firm to their idiotic ideas, and they would most assuredly become the food, not of the Gods, but the food of the animals who got stronger while the vegans became choice cuts for lions, tigers, bears, wolves, squirrels, rats, cats, leopards, cheetahs, dogs, foxes, jackals, coyotes, raccoons, ferrets, hyenas, seals, sea lions, opossums, and should they venture near the ocean, sharks. The vegan idea is insane, the idea of a dingbat out of the UK, and if you don’t see the insanity of it, then, you’re insane, or to be less contemptuous, stupid.

  24. I too will NOT be sporting a Milk Mustache Chris. I’d like to point you to Observational research conducted in Sweden, led by Prof. Karl Michaëlsson, who disputes some of the health benefits of milk, in particular providing conflicting data for the most cited connection between milk and prolonged bone health.

    The researchers hypothesized that a high consumption of milk may, in fact, increase oxidative stress, leading to an effect on the risk of mortality and bone fracture.

    The link to the full article is here… http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/284530.php

    Having suffered directly from buying into all the dairy propaganda, removing dairy from my diet has yielded numerous improvements to my health. My own personal research takes a common sense approach to nutrition. My findings concluded that animals milk is basically liquid meat, rich in the wrong proteins for human consumption including difficult to digest caseins.

    These undigested proteins enter the lower intestines where they putrefy and create highly toxic by-products which poison us. Undigested proteins can also enter into systemic circulation provoking allergic reactions.

    The chemical composition of milk is genetically disposed to service the infant of the individual species.

    Cow’s milk is custom tailored to turn a 60LB calf into a 600 LB. Cow. We are genetically disposed to consume human’s milk.

    Mother’s milk is actually the perfect food but just for infants. Mammals are born with the ability to make an enzyme called lactase which digests the lactose. All mammals, including the majority of humans, lose the ability to make this enzyme after weaning. Without this enzyme, consuming milk causes numerous medical problem. Of course none of this takes into consideration that the majority of dairy comes from diseased animals brought up on grains, laced with antibiotics and hormones.

  25. “b) it is clear you have no scientific knowledge of nutrition

    Do some research, and come back when you have a few clues.”

    Among so many other milk drinkers, it doesn’t take “scientific knowledge of nutrition” to know that our bones are just fine after decades of drinking milk.

    Oh, and hey, look, I have all my teeth!

    Wow!

    Get some common sense, and come back when you have a few clues.”

  26. “And again, a calcium blood test does not indicate what is happening in our bones.”

    I didn’t say what is happening in the bones.

    (Correction: I meant bones and not blood in my previous post.)

    And again, pay attention.

    And again, it shows that milk does not deplete the calcium in the bones, like some believe.

    • a) you are clogging up the comments section with with poor chat etiquette
      b) it is clear you have no scientific knowledge of nutrition

      Do some research, and come back when you have a few clues.

  27. “Why bother doing a calcium blood test if it has no bearing on the status of your bones?”

    Try to focus, and pay attention…

    it tells that milk does indeed give our bones plenty of calcium, and that very little is taken away.

    It’s for people who want to know for sure.

    • Again, can you please reply to the comment instead of starting a new one.

      And again, a calcium blood test does not indicate what is happening in our bones. It just shows that we have calcium in our blood. The body typically absorbs calcium according to requirements to maintain the correct ratios in the body, and many processes and interactions take place after that. Do you actually believe that just because we have calcium in our blood our bones are fine? If we didn’t have calcium in our blood we would die instantly.

  28. “A blood test will not tell you the damage that has been done to your osteoblast (bone making) cells.”

    I didn’t say it did. But blood test tells how much calcium is in our blood.

    Some people actually believe that milk zaps out the calcium, when in fact it does very little. A blood test tells the truth.

    But, they probably wouldn’t believe it anyway … calling the doctor a quack, and that the test was somehow flawed.

    Some people. . . .

    • Why bother doing a calcium blood test if it has no bearing on the status of your bones? You’re really struggling here. Also, you can reply to a comment as well instead of starting a new thread.

  29. “So yeah, looking with a common sense approach at bone health worldwide, there’s a massive correlation between dairy consumption and osteoporosis.”

    Nope. Those who have bone problems are not active enough, in addition to smoking and having a poor diet.

    If there was a problem across the board, ALL of us would have problems. Only a fraction do, and they aren’t taking care of themselves.

    But, hey, I guess I have osteoporosis too.

    Gee.

    • Bold claim, very bold. You got any proof to back that up, because I’ve read many studies that rule out extraneous factors such as those. I’d love to see some links to your findings.

    • “If there was a problem across the board, ALL of us would have problems. Only a fraction do, and they aren’t taking care of themselves.”
      That’s the same as saying: “If there was a health problem with smoking, ALL smokers would get cancer. Only a fraction do, so smoking can’t be bad for your health.”

  30. Anna said, in part:

    “Does no one know how to do research these days?. . . .”

    Sometimes there is no need. Just use common sense.

    Example: I just look at my history, and the history of milk drinkers.

    If it was a problem, our bones would be telling us.

    And a blood test would really tell you.

    Screw all these links going to “studies.”

    Nuff said.

    • “just use commone sense..If it was a problem, our bones would be telling us.” So true, finally someone speaks some reason.

      So yeah, looking with a common sense approach at bone health worldwide, there’s a massive correlation between dairy consumption and osteoporosis. There’s also a massive correlation between lack of dairy consumption, and lack of osteoporosis.

      The bones are speaking.

      • Correlation is not causation. There needs to be more research. If there really was a correlation then generations of people would have been having osteoporosis. So where are the billions of cases of milk drinkers with it. Does your studies tell you that? No?… Hmmm junk science!!!

        • There have been plenty of scientific studies done to show a correlation between milk, osteoporosis, and early death. The dairy industry even did a study years back and found a link to osteoporosis. Now they manipulate their results.

  31. If in doubt about milk and calcium, just have a blood test done to test for calcium levels.

    I love milk, been drinking it for some 50 years. My bones and teeth are still going strong.

    If milk’s protein took calcium from out bones, we would be in trouble, like teeth falling out of our mouth.

    Some people have allergies to milk. That doesn’t mean it is bad for everyone.

    Common sense, folks. Let’s use it.

    • A blood test will not tell you the damage that has been done to your osteoblast (bone making) cells. Osteoporosis is typically an old persons disease, and onsets when your bones no longer have the capacity to make new bone matrix.

  32. I believe that websites like this are extremely harmful. Some slick SEO mixed with lots of confusion and opinions about different nutrients and their individual pros and cons. This is enough to keep people in the dark about the true facts, which is just how the dairy industry (a hugely powerful machine) wants it. What is indisputable is that countries with higher rates of bone fractures for example New Zealand, Finland, Sweden and USA also have high rates of dairy consumption. Countries with low rates of dairy consumption have low rates of bone fracture. So what has been indoctrinated into our society for decades – that our consumption of dairy products will give us strong bones – is fundamentally flawed. Getting hung up on the pros and cons of individual nutrients is unfortunately detracting us from this basic fact. The dairy industry has an incredible influence on the information that we are exposed to and will of course fiercely product its interests, which are purely financial. There are also others who want to sell books who also benefit in this way.

    • So does the study say this is a recent trend? Or one that really correlates to the use of glyphosate in those regions and that that is really the cause of the osteoporosis? That is what glyphosate does you know. It decalcifies and breaks down scale deposits of calcium etc. Where is that study. I bet you anything that the study was not done looking into what the cows were fed, or ALL the external exposures of the populace within them. Sounds like Monsanto trying to keep you all guessing etc to me… They are in their death throes here and this type of thing, corrupting science, is their MO.

    • Yes, let’s widen the view.

      There are many factors/conditions which can influence bone loss.
      i.e. chronic inflammation, RA, celiac disease, taking corticosteroids, phosphorous regulation, estrogen metabolism, vitamin D metabolism, calcium regulation, etc

      Teasing out one factor and finding a correlation may not be very helpful in understanding how to treat or prevent osteoporosis.

      I think the bigger question is: what factors are giving more and more of us chronic conditions, of which osteoporosis is one?

      Drinking or abstaining from dairy is probably not a big factor.

  33. Why do you think the urine becomes acidic? because it contains acids FROM THE BLOOD. why did the kidney excrete these acids? Because the blood was TOO ACIDIC.

    • Author Russell Eaton says: ‘Dairy milk does increase bone density, but this comes at a terrible price. The latest research is showing that far from protecting bones, milk actually increases the risk of osteoporosis by eroding bone-making cells.

      • Does no one know how to do research these days? If you even click around on that site you can see it’s a complete sham. The “source” it links to isn’t even a study. And if you do a google search on Russell Eaton you find that this man, not a doctor, had several little controversial theories he’s cooked up to make money with. One of which includes why exercising is bad for you too.

  34. Maybe we should look at vitamin deficiencies as well. Especially vitamin D. We’re not spending enough time outside and our food is not so fresh. And maybe grains as well. I have 3 links here, wonderful talks. I’ve seen in myself the supplementing with vit D3 (looking to add some K2). I cannot drink milk, I simply don’t like it. Instead I’d eat cheese, I make my own kefir/yogurt at home (not the same consistency, but really nice fermented taste).
    Dr Alessio Fasano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wha30RSxE6w gluten
    Dr William Davis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw about gluten as well
    Dr Michael Holick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvogqa3BWVE vitamin D deficiency

    And another one : look for Peter Attia’s insights on (and experience with) a high carb diet. I don’t believe just one thing causes bad things in our bodies. I’m inclined to think there is a vitamin deficiency because of our current lifestyle.
    Take care of yourselves !

  35. For someone who claims to be science based i can’t believe you’re recommending raw milk! I was questioning your position on a few points but that last sentence has pretty much confirmed my skepticism.

    Another issue i noticed is that you’ve stated:

    “Increased dairy consumption is also consistently associated with lower rates of osteoporosis and better bone health.”

    But that is untrue. There is pretty good evidence in support of dairy consumption in childhood and adolescences, but the evidence for milk consumption in adulthood is mixed. Some studies show a reduced risk of bone problems, others show an increased risk, and others show no difference. Your statement quoted above ignores the negative data and is misleading.

    I think milk overall is probably good for us, especially in childhood, but the evidence for the benefits of milk in adulthood is certainly not conclusive.

    • I was very surprised when my second bone scan indicated bone loss. I had not drunk any milk, nor consumed dairy products. Prior to the test, I had lived a life of a vegetarian, consuming lots of soy, grains and legumes. My digestion was a mess and i suffered from insomnia. Before you point your finger at milk as the cause of osteoporosis, look at the bones of those who are vegetarians and vegans.

      • You just said it yourself: “My digestion was a mess”. If you had gut issues, you’d have issues with absorption, possibly leaky gut too. Nothing to do with dairy. Cows grow strong bones by eating grass, so assuming your gut was working ok, you’d be fine too.

        • There’s not enough information to draw either conclusion. Though the assertions keep with the theme of not providing evidence or citations found in both the article and comments.

        • Are you serious? Cows eat grass, and have healthy bones so therefor she should have them as well?! Well please by all means pretend to be a cow, and try to live off of nothing but grass, and let me know how that turns out for you. There’s a huge difference between cows, and humans. The fact that you would even compair us to a cow to get a point across makes me very sad.

  36. Thanks Chris, I agree with your article. My personal condition, sphincter or oddi dysfunction, rendered me very nutrient deficient and very sensitive to foods that brought me back to life. I could only eat a vegan diet before my meds. I spent a lot of time researching different diets, found myself spending a lot of time on your site and the weston price one. I found today’s article when I was looking into a theory I have connecting Osteoporosis and high grain diets. While these countries with high amounts may drink more milk. Norway is really high. I noticed they also ate a lot of pizza and pasta…where as Asian counties do not. So I feel it’s the grains, nuts, seeds and beans or a phytate high diet (especially when they are not prepared by soaking), not the milk, that may be causing the problem. When I was getting kidney stones all the time my doctor kept telling me to cut back on dairy, but I consumed very little at the time. My vit. D levels were low (14), but after bring that up with supplements my bones and joints still ached in pain all the time and I was getting arthritis in my fingers. After I got on my meds for SOD, I was able to switch from a vegan diet to more animal based foods, but really need nutrient dense foods to recover. I focused on beef liver, fats and cultured dairy…still eating fruits and veggies though very few phytate high foods. And my kidney stones have stopped as well as all the joint pain. Even the swelling in my knuckles has stopped. I’ve even slimmed down. My friends and family have noticed the transformation in my appearance and the major increase in energy. I’m 44, but felt like a 90yo before. Now I feel like I did in my early 20s. I truly believe following weston price and your theories took me in the right direction and back to heath. Thank you!

    • oh dont weston price us!!!

      he just didn’t have the super healthy soy milk and almond milk around at the time or all his recommendations would be different!

      seriously,
      I am glad to hear nutrient dense foods have helped you recover.

  37. The Harvard Nurses’ Health Study of 77,761 women, aged 34 to 59 followed for 12 years, found that those who drank three or more glasses of milk per day had no reduction in the risk of hip or arm fractures compared to those who drank little or no milk, even after adjustment for weight, menopausal status, smoking, and alcohol use. In fact, the fracture rates were slightly, but significantly, higher for those who consumed this much milk, compared to those who drank little or no milk.

    • The Rancho Bernardo Study of 980 post-menopausal women backs up Chris’ position. It found that drinking at least one glass of milk a day helped offset bone loss. It also found that coffee drinkers who didn’t drink milk had much lower bone density.

      Caffeine consumption increases the urinary excretion of calcium. Perhaps the Harvard nurses drank lots of coffee?

      In a different study by University of California, San Diego of 581 post-menopausal women, those who had drunk 1+ glasses of milk a day as adolescents and young adults had significantly higher bone density than those who hadn’t.

      The data doesn’t lie: dairy is good for bone density. Chris is right that the conventional wisdom in this case is right.

      Your mom was right when she told you to drink your milk or you won’t have strong bones.

  38. For those of us who lack the oxalate degrading bacteria, we suffer from kidney stones to burning bladder. Veggies, fruits and grains (especially whole grain) all contain oxalates thus we must turn to meat & dairy.

    When blood tests showed my GFR was low (indicator of CKD) I theorized it was due to oxalates binding to calcium (as I also suffer from IC) & clogging my kidneys. So I turned to eating more meat & dairy and less veggies & grains. More than a year later, my GFR increased by 25 pts! My cholesterol went from 158 to 176, well worth saving my kidneys for 🙂

  39. Hey Chris,

    I sent you an e-mail a few weeks ago regarding the lack of complete research, (or even partial considering how much info is out there) regarding pH balancing. Now I just saw a new article that try’s miserably to debunk the correlation between highly acidic pasteurized-homogenized dairy products and osteoporosis? I mean come on now, it is more than scientifically proven at this point as this theory has become a highly recognized scientific theory with overwhelming proof! If you took even a little extra time to do unbiased research you would be able to understand, comprehend, and embrace theses concepts as they apply to ALL diets. Depending on metabolism, mostly due to ones distant relatives and past descendants, the ratio of alkaline/acidic foods may vary somewhat, but is not that much different. So where as one person may maintain a healthy pH with 70% alkaline forming foods to 30% acidic forming foods, another may need to be 80/20. I do not have time to review the numerous studies or present my hypothesis on this very well researched scientifically proven subject. Like I stated in the last e-mail I sent you I find it very irresponsible and careless for doctors, researchers, or so-called experts to give their opinion on a subject that is more than obviously not well researched AT ALL unfortunately. I will be addressing this type of bias, poorly researched, and outright wrong and misleading information. People deserve to get complete, thoroughly researched information especially on a life saving topic such as this one. pH Balancing.com coming soon to straighten out the many misconceptions like the this one that lack the research to address the topic.. I don’t pick on people unless their information is far off base..

    Thank You,
    Brian

    • Hi Brian,

      “I do not have time to review the numerous studies or present my hypothesis on this very well researched scientifically proven subject. ”
      *Your* hypothesis… you mean your *own* hypothesis? Are you, Brian, a researcher or something?

      “it is more than scientifically proven at this point as this theory has become a highly recognized scientific theory with overwhelming proof!”
      Translation? “It is proven since it has been proven”?

      Oh, *sure*.

      In order for you to have some beginning of credibility, that would be great to give us at least *some* links to the studies you’re reffering to, wouldn’t it?

      Your truly
      Rafgl

    • hello please can you, if you have time, send me some links or point me in the right detection to what you are saying? the whole body ph and milk thing. i really need more info on this subject. Thank you

  40. and it’s time to do real studies on these hypotheses not just assume they are not correct just because there is not enough research done…. Acidic food causes red blood cells to loose their negative charge and as a result they glue to each other. two or more red blood cells can not go through the capillary thus there is less oxygen and nutrients carried to the cells. I have a friend in Russia who was raw vegan for about a year then did a ‘live blood test’ (which shows clearly the shape and state of the red blood cells). The hematologist was amazed by how good they looked. Then he ate a piece of pastry with cheese and they repeated the test. the result was incredible- the red blood cells started to become spiky and changing to worse rapidly. These kind of tests are done more and more often. All diseases start at the cellular level, and cells start to become sick when they don’t have enough oxygen and nutrient. The health of the red cells is vital. And I’m sure that breaking down heavy/processed protein into amino-acids is very hard on our system therefore, and it required much more water and other elements to it’s job. This is the protein that messes up our PH balance. If the urine is not ok, nothing in the body is ok.

    • Elena,

      I’m in favor of alternative medicines but at the same time cautious.
      Concerning research in medicine, there is a clear difference between:
      – this theory has not yet been proven or tested; and
      – this theory shows a severe misunderstanding of the knowledge accumulated in the last 150 years.
      The acid-alkaline hypothesis is solely based on observations made in the 19th century. There is serious evidence that only the pH of urine can change, not the pH of the blood.

      An hematologist does not have to be ‘amazed’ at what he sees but rather give meaning to it through established knowledge (The fact that science doesn’t know, for example, how to cure everything doesn’t mean science doesn’t know anything. Most of the time, real operational knowledge just isn’t that visual.)

      As for the “live blood analysis”, I’m afraid it must be classified alongside Radiesthesia and Kangen water among complete scams. The russian “hematologist”, according to the places where live-blood microscopes are usually found, probably doesn’t have any degree in hematology, and therefore your friend probably ought to see someone else to see to assess he’s really healthy. For a more detailed view on the subject: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_pseudoscience_of_live_blood_cell_analysis/

      Zai jian
      Rafgl

  41. ‘Any ‘acid ash’ that is left behind by the foods we eat can be easily dealt with and eliminated in the urine. This is why your urine changes pH depending on what you eat. It’s just a sign that your kidneys are doing their job!’ —– isn’t it too much work for the kidneys to deal with so much bad food that leaves behind so much acid ash? Our body is a synchronous system and if one organ is sick, the rest are not as healthy either. The less pressure from food on our digestive system, the longer and healthier we will be.

  42. If you use even a little bit of common sense then you’d realize that cows’ milk (baby calf growth fluid) is ment for calves not humans.

    On a side note, by consuming dairy products you directly contribute to animal abuse and the production of most greenhouse gasses (methane gas from livestock is 25 to 100 times more destructive than carbon dioxide from vehicles).

    “Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns”:
    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772#.VBbjskt4Eds

    “Livestock Emissions: Still Grossly Underestimated?”: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6297

    Those studies are years old and if you take into consideration that meat and dairy consumption is increasing globally then I’m positive that those number are much higher (worse) today.

    Don’t believe me? Check it out yourselves: http://www.cowspiracy.com

    In the end, even IF dairy products aren’t bad for your health (which I believe they are) then they most certainly aren’t good for the planet.

  43. Studies are nice but few, if any, so far have been conclusive. The fact that the Okinawans and Japanese consume about 300mg daily of calcium rather that the recommended 1200 but have strong bones to me outweighs anything said to the contrary here or in studies.
    The fact that all five of the long-living Blue Zones show consumption of whole plant-based food exceeds 80% and little red meat or dairy says it all till there are conclusive studies that prove otherwise.

  44. I think articles like yours can be very dangerous. Humans are only meant to consume dairy in the form of mother’s milk at the beginning of their lives. Then you are done. These are obvious points that have been made many times before, but I will mention them here, again. Name one animal that drinks the milk of another species after weaning. It doesn’t happen, because that is not the way we are built. All countries who consume the most dairy, United States, Finland, the UK, etc., have the highest cases of osteoporosis. Think that is a coincidence.

    And, if we don’t get enough calcium from the plants we eat, how did the cows or goats get their calcium? They don’t have magic calcium making machines in their bodies. They get it from what they eat.

    want to be healthy and have strong bones? Exercise and eat a plant-based diet, and do your own research.

    • Anne, while I think you are very likely right about milk, based on my own many years of reading, I don’t think you give very compelling reasons. One needs more than “here is what other animals do, and so we should do the same”. You do refer to studies of osteoporosis, but while these are noteworthy, the causes are not fully clear, and until they are one does well to be open-minded (perhaps even while avoiding milk personally as you and I evidently both do). Chris gets my respect for attending closely to hard evidence and changes his views when the evidence so indicates.

    • @ Anne,
      You may disagree with the arguments and a lot here do. I myself certainly won’t drink liquid milk ever again in my life, for all the reasons we know. (But I’ll certainly eat again Faisselle and Roquefort, hell yeah).

      However, what truly, unlike this article, is “dangerous”, is the magical and analogical view of the world some people here display, including you.
      How dangerous is it? Answers below.

      “how did the cows or goats get their calcium? They don’t have magic calcium making machines in their bodies.”
      -> True, they don’t.

      “They get it from what they eat.”
      -> Also true. In fact, grass-fed cows easily eat 40 pounds of calcium-rich grass *per day*. Do you? 😀
      And grain-fed cows? Well, they eat calcium supplements (surprise!). Otherwise, they would suffer from what’s called “milk fever”.
      If you don’t eat dairy *at all*, I would urge you to make an Excel spreadsheet to begin tracking down exactly how much calcium you’re consuming every day. You’ll certainly have surprises.

      “Name one animal that drinks the milk of another species after weaning. ”
      -> None does, true again!! Why is that? The reason is not because adults can not digest milk. The (primary) reason is that all animals tend to reduce the amount of metabolic energy they need to function. Making milk is an enormous metabolic burden (see cow milk fever above or ask your young human colleague). It is the adult than *can* digest what the baby can not (solid food), and not the other way round: so mothers simply stop breastfeeding as soon as they can in order to save energy, not because the baby would not be able to digest milk anymore.
      This is why your cat doesn’t throw his milk plate across the room. (Btw, aren’t cats very picky? They seem good at deciding what they can and can not eat. If your magical worldview of a natural order were true, cats would certainly express a global veto over cow milk, and demand cat milk only).

      “It doesn’t happen, because that is not the way we are built.”
      -> Excuse me, do you know the way we are built? No physician on Earth has a claer understanding of how we function. Example, we may indeed have some evidence that dairy/liquid milk is correlated to osteoporosis… but we certainly don’t know for sure WHY and to which extent.
      I sure would be interested by your deeper knowledge.

      Regards,
      R.

    • Name another animal that drinks the milk of other species:
      Feral cats steal milk from nursing elephant seals in Baja, as do gulls. There are even videos on YouTube. In Europe, during the time when milk was delivered in foil-topped bottles, several species of birds pecked through the foil and drank the milk. Temple snakes have long been fed milk. Baby mammals will often nurse lactating females of other species – Google “cross-species suckling” or “inter-species suckling”. Some animals will refuse to be weaned, and self-suckling of adult mammals is not unknown. Most animals take to milk readily, even in adulthood.

      I think the major difficulty preventing nonhuman adult animals from drinking milk of other species is difficulty in obtaining it.

    • Cows have 4 stomachs. Cows and goats are ruminant animals, this means they have the ability to ferment the plants they eat before they digest them. They practically chew and rechew their food. Sorry, we cannot be compared with ruminant animals.

    • The reason is obvious and you already know the answer…dairy is animal protein and excessive animal protein is harmful to the body in more than one way….the bones are just one of them.

      Have to wonder if Chris is not somehow being rewarded by the dairy industry…

      • Richard. I’ve read all your comments on this post. Chris has already spoken at length to every single one of your posts in previous articles, many of his podcasts, and his programs. He frequently makes clear what the evidence suggests. If dairy is all of the following: 1. well tolerated 2. raw and unpasteurized 3. free from hormones and antibiotics 4. from healthy pastured heritage breed cows then it’s a personal choice. He is completely against CAFO dairy, which is the only place that could afford to “reward” anyone.
        Everyone here respects Chris Kresser’s opinion for the fact that he does NOT accept rewards or act on anyone else’s behalf, and only searches for truth and is THE most science based health expert you can find. Making accusations like that here only makes YOU look like the one getting some kind of reward from trying to make him look bad.

        • A comment from the PR department does not change my propensity to lean towards the evidence.

          I did not make an accusation but said “have to wonder” nor do I find him to be a science based health expert but thanks for your effort in replying and expressing your opinions.

          • He doesn’t have a pr department or need one; another jab from you. I’m just someone trying to get information to improve my own health and prevent disease for my own family. If you are suspicious that the information he presents ins’t fully honest, then go somewhere else and find what agrees with your existing beliefs 100% and wonder all you like about that. Good day.

      • Galatians from Galatia, region in Asia Minor, from Greek Galatia, based on Gaul, in reference to the Gaulish people who conquered the region and settled there 3c. B.C.E.

        From the Greek word Gala meaning milk. These people lived and survived off real dairy.

        The real problem lies else where.

  45. It seems that even after all these years scientific research has not really closed the loop on milk or more importantly animal products.

    Maybe milk is good for bones but there is evidence out there that excessive animal protein causes problems unrelated to bones….for example, cancer. There is at least one study that concluded large quantities of milk increases risk of prostrate cancer.

    There are so many additives in meat or animal feed that it is difficult to justify eating very much red meat, chicken or even dairy. What may have been safe one week ago maybe no longer be safe because of something new in the industry thanks to some chemical company.

    Even organic almond milk can contain carrageenan which is a questionable substance.

    Bottom line is maybe we were better off 100 years ago before all this chemical progress…

  46. I’d like to see the pH test done on the blood serum of long term Raw Fruitarian diet and Cooked Meat and Potato diet groups an hour or so after a meal. I’d bet the farm the results would be quite different from the posted narrow range spoken of above.

  47. It’s strange that otherwise intelligent human beings need to be informed of this obvious fact, but: You are not a baby cow.

    Cows produce milk to feed their babies. There is no reason for adult humans to drink breast milk from another animal. It’s illogical, unhealthy, and, frankly, weird.

    The human body is not designed to consume the breast milk of another animal. The healthiest form of breast milk for humans is from our own species. But we tend to leave that for the babies. So let’s offer other animals the same decency.

    Plant milk is healthier, and there is no confusion about whether or not it’s good for us. Almond milk, hemp milk, rice milk, organic soy milk… the options are numerous and provide higher levels of essential vitamins than cow milk.

  48. Something that’s almost nearly always missing in the analysis of dairy, is whether the good outweighs the bad.

    I used to love dairy. I delivered it, I drank litres of it every day, and I had lots of health problems. I gave it up, and the health problems went away. I started researching.

    The good? It’s got some nutrients, but because it’s pasteurised, they’re mostly gone. It’s got calcium, but we just don’t need much calcium – that’s a push from the dairy industry because our bones are largely calcium – a very weak connection. It’s got protein, but really unless we’re doing resistance training we don’t need much of that either. So yeah, there’s some good stuff.

    The bad? Oh man, the list is endless. So many links to things like osteoporosis, cancer, arteriosclerosis, asthma, acne, diabetes, hypothyroidism, calcium deposits in joints and organs.. seriously, there’s just so much bad news for dairy, that you’re playing Russian Roulette.

    Good luck in your choices.

    • I realize the focus of this article is on bones but the evidence against a large quantity of daily milk is much stronger for the link with prostate cancer.

  49. Remember Weston Price found populations that consumed lots of dairy and no ill health was noted (quite the opposite). This was raw dairy of course from healthy ruminants. Whatever ills can be blamed on dairy I think tie in with its adulteration. Homogenization creates abnormally small fat molecules that some speculate can bypass gut barriers. Pasteurization of course destroys fragile components, especially ultra-pasteurized, which Mark MacAfee then calls the milk ‘paint thinner’…ever notice the shelf life of ultra pasteurized milk products? And of course added hormones and antibiotics and grain fed/sickly cattle no doubt create more issues still.

    Try some raw Jersey cow milk and take note of your body’s response (start slow if you have been off dairy).

    • Jersey cow’s milk is a good suggestion as it is very likely free from the mutation found in some European breeds such as Friesian/Holstein or Ayrshire cows – Alpha 1 Beta Casomorphin. This ‘devil in the milk’ is a real trouble-maker, implicated in heart disease, autoimmune disease and plenty of other ills.

      • I’m surprised everyone is talking about different kinds of cow’s milk: I find ewe’s milk yoghourt and cheese (Spanish Manchego, for instance) much better for me than cow’s milk of any sort. This is not from the point of view of osteoporosis but to avoid overproduction of mucus as a singer.

    • If you wish to place you health in the hands of 1930’s research that is questionable that is up to you but I like to react to research done in the last ten to twenty years which includes much better methodologies.
      I suggest for openers you might look into the Blue Zones and see how those cultures did on their specific diets.

    • There are studies that provide strong evidence of a high risk of prostate cancer with two or more servings of milk daily.

      Again, the Asians consume little milk and the men have much lower rates of prostate cancer.

      There are safer alternatives that will result in strong bones without the risks of prostate cancer…

  50. I found all of the information very interesting. I can tell you I feel better on a low acid diet, but I have to agree. I my blood is acidic. Dr. did not seem to care. It does worry me as to why that has not changed.

  51. “Other studies show that phosphate in general – not just from milk – increases calcium retention and improves bone health. (2) Increased dairy consumption is also consistently associated with lower rates of osteoporosis and better bone health.”

    The study says that more calcium was excreted, not retained, with milk. And what are the studies that consistently associate dairy consumption with lower rates of osteoporosis?

  52. But aren’t the countries with the highest per capita rate of dairy consumption also the ones with the highest rate of osteoporosis?

  53. My mother had Osteoporosis, and because I have it in my lower back (I am in my 60’s) I have been advised to take calcium citrate supplements every day. Is this counter productive, bearing in mind previous comments? If so, what would you advise?

  54. What about the effects of pasteurization on the absorbability of calcium from dairy? My understanding is that a substance is formed from the high heat pasteurization that binds the calcium, preventing its absorption. A frequent comment is that North Americans have the highest consumption of dairy and the highest rates of osteoporosis in the world. Is this true, and can it be linked to the heating of the milk?

    Obviously, raw is the ideal way around this, but not everyone is willing to go raw or has access to it.

  55. So the video that has been going around where the milk is poured into the coca-cola bottle and shows what it looks like after a couple hours, it was like sand/dirt at the bottom of the bottle and a clear yellowish liquid at top separate from the sediment….What does that mean….?There was no article ,if I remember correctly, to explain what your seeing. So I wonder what it means?

  56. Dairy is tolerated well by those who are a blood type B ….. I know from own personal health issues that eating any dairy I immediately develop mucus and inflamation in the bones of my hands and feet l am an O blood type and dairy is a killer for blood type A people
    See Dr Peter D’Adamo’s books EAT RITE FOR YOUR BLOOD TYPE … A blood types should be vegetarians ……… it works !!!! no trial and error using this system !!!!!!

    • Enough with this blood types nonsense.

      It is based on the sole unfounded assumption that one should eat the same regimen as when the blood gene mutation occured. Then if I’m blue eyed should I eat dairy and meat because this mutation appeared at a certain time in northern Europe and blah blah blah?
      And if I’m black I suppose I should only be feeding on bananas and manioc?

      This is all complete pseudoscience bullshit. So stop spreading it. Thanks.

      • Funnily enough, Manioc comes from South America. It is very bad for depleting soil and incredibly easy to grow. It needs a lot of processing such as fermenting or soaking to render it safe to eat.

  57. I am always seeking to keep my knowledge base up-to-date with regards to nutrition. I used to teach college nutrition and I am personally passionate about it. Thankfully, there is more impetus now to research nutrition, which many lay people do not realize is an incredibly complex science.

    Here is my thought on milk. I think if we are to consume dairy, typically a fermented form is better for us than drinking lots of milk. A huge portion of our population is intolerant to milk (but not always intolerant to fermented sources of dairy). In reference to milk NOT being the ideal bone building food we all have been told it was as kids (i.e. possib;e contributor to osteoporosis), the 12 year Harvard nurses study actually showed a slight increase of hip fractures in heavy milk drinkers compared to those who were not. Now here is my thought, high levels of consumed animal protein can lead to calcium reduction in the bones. Since milk is a source of animal protein, it may contribute to bone loss when a person’s diet is excessively high in animal protein overall. But given that so many people are intolerant of milk, evolutionarily, we are provided with a large assortment of non animal high calcium foods. Some studies show that vitamin D is a much more important factor than consuming large amounts of calcium. So again I think we the key ideas of moderation (e.g. meat/dairy) and ensuring we get sun and vit D as well as increased physical activity, eating lots of dark leafy greens – not necessarily drinking lots of milk, are key factors in bone strength.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380936/pdf/amjph00505-0106.pdf

  58. I’m not so sure that Chris didn’t drop the ball in this article. I believe that even though the article may be “technically” correct, it is somewhat misleading or inconclusive.

    First off, whenever people talk about “milk” they automatically refer to pasteurized milk. And, from everything I have read (from many, many different sources), it appears that pasteurized milk has no important health benefits at all. And, even if it were to have some unnamed benefit, the drawback are so many they overshadow any potential benefit from the calcium it contains.

    I’m not arguing that commercial milk (pasteurized, homogenized from cows fed grains, bgh, and antibiotics) leads to osteoporosis, I’m simply challenging the claim that “dairy probably is good for your bones after all” (unless we are discussing raw milk coming from pastured cows).

    Once again the food industry has turned a healthy food into an unhealthy product (for the sake of profit).

    Most milk comes from cows that are fed genetically modified soybean meal and growth hormones to increase production. Both increase a cow’s risk of developing mastitis, liver problems, and pituitary gland problems, leading to frequent doses of antibiotics to curb the subsequent infections.

    Then, the milk is pasteurized which destroys many vitamins, healthy bacteria, and denatures many proteins. Pasteurization also destroys enzymes which enable the body to digest the milk and absorb the calcium.

    Then, for good measure, the milk is homogenized which allows a protein enzyme called xanthine oxidase to be absorbed directly into the blood stream. There is some very compelling research demonstrating clear associations with this absorbed enzyme and increased risks of heart disease.

    Cow’s milk is the number one allergic food in this country. It has been well documented as a cause in diarrhea, cramps, bloating, gas, gastrointestinal bleeding, iron-deficiency anemia, skin rashes, atherosclerosis, and acne.
    It is the primary cause of recurrent ear infections in children. It has also been linked to insulin dependent diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, infertility, and leukemia.
    Most of these ill effects are the result of the “processing”, not milk (in itself). Still, when someone considers that most milk sold/consumed in this country has been through this unhealthy processing, I’m not sure they could claim claim that dairy is probably good for you bones.

  59. It’s all very interesting, but there are so many factors, is it not important to remember not to ‘micro manage’ our nutrition or ‘micro investigate’ these things in isolation? The fact to remember is that we are the only species to consume milk from another species and the only species to consume it into adulthood. Milk is designed to give nutrition to babies/young of the SAME species. It is known to cause allergies and a host of other human symptoms are associated with it, which were not seen it the San Bushman style Paleo eaters… (who were designed to eat honey for example but only 4lbs a YEAR … ref comment earlier saying if milk is for babies then honey is for bees ….. not!) Which must make you go “Hmmmm….” and would save us all a lot of breath! xx

  60. As someone who has been involved in nutrition for over 30 years I can’t but scoff at the poorly sourced nature of this article. A couple of contrary studies doesn’t really stack up to the mountain of studies, conclusions and related statistics .
    http://milk.elehost.com/html/osteoporosis.html
    There is no net benefit to the human body from consuming dairy. And there is a definite link between the countries with the highest dairy consumption in that they all have the highest levels of bone diseases.

    Hardly surprising – the gene that enables lactose tolerance is a medeival mutation from northern Europe. This explains why 75% of the world’s population are lactose intolerant. And why intolerance to lactose has no deleterious effect on bone health.

    So even if you’re not grossed out by the treatment of dairy cows and their calves, even if you can handle the approved pus levels in milk, you can’t deny that on balance dairy protein and dairy calcium are toxic. 2 recent studies compared it to smoking in terms of health damage.

    • Forgive me Peter, but you sound almost angry about the consumption of dairy (‘grossed out’).
      Looking at the subject objectively, the study you are referring to has concluded that an ESTIMATE of 75% of adults worldwide show SOME decrease in lactase activity during adulthood. That’s not the same as saying 75% of the world is lactose intolerant.
      As a vegan, I’d rather people don’t consume dairy for personal reasons, but I am objective about it. I have 2 almost centarian grandmothers walking around who have drank milk in cereal every day.
      Studies also show that in those countries you mention, too much preformed vitamin A may be the reason for bone fractures. There are too many factors to consider to simply label dairy as the bad guy.

  61. Hi Chris,

    What about the idea that milk products increase mucous production. Is that a stricly individual allergic reaction or is it pretty common and occurs only with pasteurized milk? Also with fermented products, pasteurized or not?

  62. I can’t stress the importance of “raw dairy” from grass fed animals given no antibiotics or growth hormones. The commercial dairy that most consume is nothing more than another processed food. Get real everyone, that’s “real milk”. I grew up on processed food including processed dairy. I had mucus and post nasal drip almost my entire 74 years. Six years ago I switched to raw dairy and within a year I had no more nasal congestion of any kind. For the first time in my life I know what sinuses are supposed to feel like. I finally can breathe. I have the bone density of a 35 year old.

    • Anecdotes are no substitute for science. Raw dairy has all the contaminents of pasteurised, only with the added threat of listeria poisoning.

  63. What are these studies that you speak of? Can you give us the sources? And have you seen the Harvard nurses study conducted over 18 years of nearly 75,000 post-menopausal women where they determined that milk does NOT reduce risk of hip fractures? (http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/77/2/504.short)
    Me thinks you may be funded by the dairy industry! If not, you should have no problem sharing your sources.

  64. I think the study is interesting, but it misleads the reader into thinking that dairy is good for you. From a TCM perspective, dairy is cold and very phlegm-inducing. It hinders the spleen and impedes one’s ability to digest and process food properly.

    While it may be a myth that milk decreases bone density, I don’t think that means it’s good for you.

  65. Chris’s article refuting the claim that dairy causes osteoporosis unfortunately relies on one research review that fails to take into consideration the difference between acidemia in the blood serum and acidosis in the other body tissues. Ironically, Chris correctly pointed out this difference when he said, “The pH of our blood is maintained in a very tight range,” while also noting, “No doubt we can really mess up our health by eating the wrong things.” The confusion comes from not recognizing the link between acidemia and acidosis. Cow milk which is high in phosphorus, sulfur, and calcium, causes acidosis in the body TISSUES as the acid products formed from phosphorus and sulfur accumulate. However, as Chris correctly pointed out, acidosis is avoided in the BLOOD as the kidneys excrete excess phosphorus, due to a hormone called FGF-23. But Chris is wrong when he says “the bones don’t even come into play in the regulation of our serum pH.” It is well known that the parathyroid glands release calcium from bone into the blood serum when phosphorus intake gets too high, regardless of the amount of calcium already consumed in cow milk. This mechanism explains the mountain of evidence linking dairy intake with osteoporosis in the Western diet. By contrast, acidosis and bone loss is avoided in infants by feeding human milk which is naturally six times lower in phosphorus than cow milk. For more information, see: http://www.bodyfatguide.com/HowDairyProductsCauseOsteoporosis.htm

    • You state that milk is high in is high in phosphorus, sulfur, and calcium. You mention that the parathyroid glands release calcium from bone into the blood serum when phosphorus intake gets too high, regardless of the amount of calcium already consumed in cow milk. Why is that? I would have thought that in the same way fruit contains fibre to ensure its fructose is not so damaging, the calcium in milk is there to offset the phosphorus content – to provide balance?

  66. While this is interesting, I’m curious why it is that humans are the only species to consume milk beyond the age of 6 months, and not even from our own species.

    • I agree.

      The only way to truly learn the truth, is by carefully studying the anatomy and physiology of the human body. Who knows, maybe this “Chris Kresser” is a representative (or being heavily funded) of the Dairy Industry. Not my intention to presume overmuch, but still…

  67. “Increased dairy consumption is also consistently associated with lower rates of osteoporosis and better bone health.”

    – How come the countries with the highest consumption of dairy products, have the highest rate of Osteoporosis? In Norway, where I live, it is commonplace, people dying left and right, that is. Due to their foolhardy intake of dairy products.

    Is the body not (physiologically, as well anatomically) 100% herbivorous, or am I mistaken?

    Muscle Atrophy in the elderly, is not unheard of as well, ’tis in fact notorious.

    Surely, this cannot be a mere case of happenstance…
    What ever could be the culprit of this pandemic?

    Buddhist Monks living in rural parts of China, being on a vegetarian diet with little to no dairy, seem to be doing well. For example…

  68. Studies showing milk doesn’t make bones stronger.
    1. Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Publ Health. 1997;87:992-997.
    2. Cumming RG, Klineberg RJ. Case-control study of risk factors for hip fractures in the elderly. Am J Epidemiol. 1994;139:493-503.

    And this interesting material:
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/

    It doesn’t state that milk causes osteoporosis, but it states:

    Lactose Intolerance

    Many people have some degree of lactose intolerance. For them, eating or drinking dairy products causes problems like cramping, bloating, gas, and diarrhea. These symptoms can range from mild to severe. Certain groups are much more likely to have lactose intolerance. For example, 90 percent of Asians, 70 percent of blacks and Native Americans, and 50 percent of Hispanics are lactose intolerant, compared to only about 15 percent of people of Northern European descent.

    High Saturated Fat Content

    Many dairy products are high in saturated fats, and a high saturated fat intake is a risk factor for heart disease. And while it’s true that most dairy products are now available in fat-reduced or nonfat options, the saturated fat that’s removed from dairy products is inevitably consumed by someone, often in the form of premium ice cream, butter, or baked goods.

    Possible Increased Risk of Ovarian Cancer

    High levels of galactose, a sugar released by the digestion of lactose in milk, have been studied as possibly damaging to the ovaries and leading to ovarian cancer.

    Probable Increased Risk of Prostate Cancer

    A diet high in calcium has been implicated as a probable risk factor for prostate cancer. In a Harvard study of male health professionals, men who drank two or more glasses of milk a day were almost twice as likely to develop advanced prostate cancer as those who didn’t drink milk at all.

    ***
    So in any case dairy products come out as unsuitable for human being, unless it’s a 0-3 year old child feeding on milk of a human. Not of a cow, anatomically different animal weighing at least 5 times larger than normal human.

  69. After many years of high dairy consumption and inhaled asthma steroids I ended up with advanced osteoporosis and 3 broken teeth/root canals and counting. Dairy did nothing to protect my bones from the inhaled steroids, and I believe dairy actually caused calcium excretion in the urine from too much total protein. AND after stopping dairy I was able to get off the steroid. It turns out I had a HIDDEN dairy intolerance which is quite common!!!

    • After many years of high dairy consumption and no inhaled asthma steroids I have not got osteoporosis, have not broken a single bone, not had any fillings in my teeth, and in fact, I have never had any problems with my teeth at all. I believe dairy consumption has made me invincible!… do you see what I did there? Maybe this can make you realise how stupid this comment sounds.

  70. I think the PH analysis is flawed by relying on serum levels.

    For example I serum test pretty normal for magnesium but when I apply topical magnesium in the form of dissolved Magnesium Chloride then I can really tell I have a magnesium deficiency because my muscles and posture are transformed and other healing process are greatly helped.

    The PH of the blood is interesting but shouldn’t the prime concern be tissue PH and benefit.

    It might be the PH diets are beneficial for other reasons than PH like phytonutrients etc. Hard to reconcile the limited science with the observation that PH diets do greatly reduce muscle tension and improve general health. In my case anyway.

  71. Chris – I’m just curious if they controlled for the presence of K2 in the diet? I thought I was beginning to understand the role of D3 & K2 and that they were both necessary for the body to put the calcium in the right place in the body, otherwise the calcium would be deposited in places like arteries (hardening of the arteries) or soft tissue in the joints (arthritis pain.) That with the D3 & K2 the body can do a whole lot of good with just a little calcium, regardless of the source.

  72. Chris,

    Everytime I go to an organic store and see RAW milk in the fridge (or even RAW kefir), it says clearly that its not for consumption, and seems to be used for bathing purposes.

    It seems that raw milk is dangerous based on the bacteria in there. How come you recommend it still?

    • Matt, with such a logic, you should eat nothing. For example, honey is for bees, seeds are for the reproduction and spread of flowering plants, etc,

  73. Congratulation, great article indeed. I´am of the same opinion like you and attach some posts presented on my FB page on this subject.
    https://www.facebook.com/MichalPijakMDPersonalizedPaleoNutrition

    DON´T BELIEVE STUPID CLAIMS THAT ALKALINE FOODS ARE GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH

    Surprisingly, all those stupid alkaline diets overlook the important role of foods in urine pH.

    If you are healthy, there’s no reason to make special effort to “balance out” acidic foods or take alkaline supplements with the aim to change the pH of your body fluid. However,the type of foods have great influence on urine pH. Healthy urine should be slightly acidic.

    Consumption of alkaline foods leads to permanetly alkaline urine which increases the risk of precipitation of calcium phosphate salts and decreases antibacterial activity of the urine.

    On the other hand, consumption of acidic foods results in very low urine pH, which increases antibacterial activity of the urine but increases the risk of precipitation of urate salts in some persons, such as those with metabolic syndrom.

    In addition, all patients with crystaluria or kidney stones should avoid foods with high content of soluble oxalates. One of the best food for patients with hypercalciuria including both phosphate and oxalate stones is dairy, especially fermented products. Acidogenic dairy foods decrease urine pH, decrease intestinal absorbtion of toxic soluble oxalate salts due to chelating effect of calcium, provide high amount of phosphates, calcium and magnesium,( which increases the solubility of calcium in the urine) and promote colonisation of gut with oxalate degrading bacteria – oxalobacter formigenes.

    DON´T BELIEVE IDIOTIC ACID-ASH HYPOTHESIS: LOW, BUT NOT HIGH URINE pH IS A SIGN OF GOOD HEALTH AND HEALTHY DIET

    Low urine pH and acid excretion do not predict bone fractures or the loss of bone mineral density: a prospective cohort study.
    Fenton TR, Eliasziw M, Tough SC, Lyon AW, Brown JP, Hanley DA.

    BACKGROUND: The acid-ash hypothesis, the alkaline diet, and related products are marketed to the general public. Websites, lay literature, and direct mail marketing encourage people to measure their urine pH to assess their health status and their risk of osteoporosis.The objectives of this study were to determine whether 1) low urine pH, or 2) acid excretion in urine [sulfate + chloride + 1.8x phosphate + organic acids] minus [sodium + potassium + 2x calcium + 2x magnesium mEq] in fasting morning urine predict: a) fragility fractures; and b) five-year change of bone mineral density (BMD) in adults.

    METHODS: Design: Cohort study: the prospective population-based Canadian Multicentre Osteoporosis Study. Multiple logistic regression was used to examine associations between acid excretion (urine pH and urine acid excretion) in fasting morning with the incidence of fractures (6804 person years). Multiple linear regression was used to examine associations between acid excretion with changes in BMD over 5-years at three sites: lumbar spine, femoral neck, and total hip (n = 651). Potential confounders controlled included: age, gender, family history of osteoporosis, physical activity, smoking, calcium intake, vitamin D status, estrogen status, medications, renal function, urine creatinine, body mass index, and change of body mass index.

    RESULTS: There were no associations between either urine pH or acid excretion and either the incidence of fractures or change of BMD after adjustment for confounders.

    CONCLUSION: Urine pH and urine acid excretion do not predict osteoporosis risk.

    DON´T BELIEVE IDIOTIC ACID-ASH HYPOTHESIS: LOW, BUT NOT HIGH URINE pH IS A SIGN OF GOOD HEALTH AND HEALTHY DIET

    Low urine pH and acid excretion do not predict bone fractures or the loss of bone mineral density: a prospective cohort study.
    Fenton TR, Eliasziw M, Tough SC, Lyon AW, Brown JP, Hanley DA.

    BACKGROUND: The acid-ash hypothesis, the alkaline diet, and related products are marketed to the general public. Websites, lay literature, and direct mail marketing encourage people to measure their urine pH to assess their health status and their risk of osteoporosis.The objectives of this study were to determine whether 1) low urine pH, or 2) acid excretion in urine [sulfate + chloride + 1.8x phosphate + organic acids] minus [sodium + potassium + 2x calcium + 2x magnesium mEq] in fasting morning urine predict: a) fragility fractures; and b) five-year change of bone mineral density (BMD) in adults.

    METHODS: Design: Cohort study: the prospective population-based Canadian Multicentre Osteoporosis Study. Multiple logistic regression was used to examine associations between acid excretion (urine pH and urine acid excretion) in fasting morning with the incidence of fractures (6804 person years). Multiple linear regression was used to examine associations between acid excretion with changes in BMD over 5-years at three sites: lumbar spine, femoral neck, and total hip (n = 651). Potential confounders controlled included: age, gender, family history of osteoporosis, physical activity, smoking, calcium intake, vitamin D status, estrogen status, medications, renal function, urine creatinine, body mass index, and change of body mass index.

    RESULTS: There were no associations between either urine pH or acid excretion and either the incidence of fractures or change of BMD after adjustment for confounders.

    CONCLUSION: Urine pH and urine acid excretion do not predict osteoporosis risk.

    PHOSPHATE DECREASES URINE CALCIUM AND INCREASES CALCIUM BALANCE: A META-ANALYSIS OF THE IDIOTIC OSTEOPOROSIS ACID-ASH DIET HYPOTHESIS PROMOTED BY VEGANS AND PALEOROMANTIC MORONS
    Fenton TR, et al.
    Source: Clinical Nutrition, Alberta Health Services, Calgary, AB, Canada. [email protected]

    BACKGROUND: The acid-ash hypothesis posits that increased excretion of “acidic” ions derived from the diet, such as phosphate, contributes to net acidic ion excretion, urine calcium excretion, demineralization of bone, and osteoporosis. The public is advised by various media to follow an alkaline diet to lower their acidic ion intakes. The objectives of this meta-analysis were to quantify the contribution of phosphate to bone loss in healthy adult subjects; specifically,
    a) to assess the effect of supplemental dietary phosphate on urine calcium, calcium balance, and markers of bone metabolism; and to assess whether these affects are altered by the
    b) level of calcium intake,
    c) the degree of protonation of the phosphate.

    METHODS: Literature was identified through computerized searches regarding phosphate with surrogate and/or direct markers of bone health, and was assessed for methodological quality. Multiple linear regression analyses, weighted for sample size, were used to combine the study results. Tests of interaction included stratification by calcium intake and degree of protonation of the phosphate supplement.

    RESULTS: Twelve studies including 30 intervention arms manipulated 269 subjects’ phosphate intakes. Three studies reported net acid excretion. All of the meta-analyses demonstrated significant decreases in urine calcium excretion in response to phosphate supplements whether the calcium intake was high or low, regardless of the degree of protonation of the phosphate supplement. None of the meta-analyses revealed lower calcium balance in response to increased phosphate intakes, whether the calcium intake was high or low, or the composition of the phosphate supplement.

    CONCLUSION: All of the findings from this meta-analysis were contrary to the acid ash hypothesis.
    1. Higher phosphate intakes were associated with decreased urine calcium and increased calcium retention.
    2. This meta-analysis did not find evidence that phosphate intake contributes to demineralization of bone or to bone calcium excretion in the urine.
    3. Dietary advice that dairy products, meats, and grains are detrimental to bone health due to “acidic” phosphate content needs reassessment.
    4. There is no evidence that higher phosphate intakes are detrimental to bone health.

    PERSONALLY I THINK, THAT THERE IS INCREASING EVIDENCE AGAINST FLAWED CORDAIN´S THEORY THAT MILK-MEDIATED mTORC1-SIGNALING MAY PLAY IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE INITIATION AND PROGRESSION OF CANCER . Read more about this theory: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/74
    DAIRY PRODUCTS AND CANCER: A GREAT SUMMARY O EVIDENCE AGAINST FLAWED CORDAIN´S THEORY THAT MILK-MEDIATED mTORC1-SIGNALING PLAY IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE INITIATION AND PROGRESSION OF CANER
    Lampe JW. J Am Coll Nutr. 2011 Oct;30(5 Suppl 1):464S-70S.

    Oral BCAA supplementation is associated with reduced incidence of HCC in patients with cirrhosis and seems to prevent liver-related events in patients with Child-Pugh A cirrhosis.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21829025

    Milk Consumption and Bladder Cancer Risk: A Meta-Analysis of Published Epidemiological Studies

    In conclusion, results of this meta-analysis suggested a potential protective effect of milk for bladder cancer, and this relationship varied widely across geographical regions and specific dairy products. Further research is warranted to confirm these findings and elucidate the likely biological mechanisms.
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01635581.2011.614716#.UiRQED9JRbs

    • Interesting. I am a recovering … I don’t what exactly.
      Science definitely isn’t the area of my expertise so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Although I didn’t buy into this alkaline theory entirely, I have tried to be more alkaline for the last 3 years. I do have low density and I was always acidic. This worked fine, until I stop looking at the bottle of potassium (which I bought some two years ago) a started to take one pill a day. This was some 4 months ago. Some six weeks ago, I had a bad cold, with bad coughing and everything else, a week later another cold, some day later I was on the verge of yet another cold, and for the last several days, I’ve been sneezing and coughing. It looks like I have a permanent cold. Last week, I had a medical check up which showed that my blood pressure dropped significantly, the lab tests showed that my potassium reached the upper level of the range and my PH is 7. I decided to diagnose myself and concluded that I need more salt than potassium and spend my days licking salt, just like some animals do. If anyone is interested in the remaining potassium pills, I can send them.

  74. It’s a good point to cite that the calcium humans are getting during the Paleolithic era are good enough to sustain the body, considering they are subject to harder and laborious work than we are today.
    It’s great that there’s a huge Calcium content in dairy products but the question really is do you really need that much? I’d say sticking to http://bit.ly/primalpaleo diet gives our body all the nutrients we really need.

  75. I applaud you Chris for raising this subject. And for daring to ‘step out of line ! Dairy has become a ‘dirty word’ in the alternative health community, and to shun it has become almost the norm.
    We are told that the countries with the greatest dairy consumption have the highest rates of osteoporosis. Conveniently omitted is that these countries also have the highest consumption of refined carbohydrates and processed food. Why pick on the dairy ?
    And studies are produced to demonstrate the harms of dairy, but they’re meaningless because they’re
    all based on industrially produced milk, pasteurised, standardised, homogenised, defatted etc. A far cry from the real milk I drank as a child, fresh from our own cow. Infections were not passed on in the milk because care was taken with cleanliness.
    I was raised in a dairying culture. My ancestors as far back as I can trace, all had raw dairy (there being no such thing as pasteurisation till the 20th century). They all had good bones.
    Many people posting on here will also be descended from cultures that kept dairy animals. Why would something that has sustained us for millenia be suddenly so harmful ?? Only because of the way it’s now produced and processed.

    • Estelle,

      I WANT to agree with you. Mostly because I love dairy. But I disagree with your argument that it has become “suddenly so harmful” after it has”sustained us for millenia” – many would argue the same about grains, particularly wheat, and I would have to say that we’ve only suffered for our reliance on it for the past 10 or 12 thousand years. I’m not sure that simply consuming something for thousands of years makes something safe or healthy, as people have relied on many things for survival throughout history that simply became traditional to eat – not because they were actually good for us – but because we had been doing so for so long.

      I still think many can tolerate milk very well, and even thrive on it as long as it’s raw, and those who have should continue consuming it. Grains, however, are a different story.

      • Totally agree. If you don’t believe in Adam and Eve, you may believe that humans have lived without grains, sugar, and milk for 2.5 million years.
        However Chris also points out that just because the ancestors never had it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t, and he also states, as you do, that there is something to be said for raw organic milk from heritage pasture raised animals. I would then ferment that.

  76. Coming at this from a gout perspective, all the info I found on the web says that dairy is a “neutral” food when it comes to the acid-alkaline debate. Yeah, the milk in it is acidic-forming, but the calcium in it is alkaline, so it offsets the acid.

    I was looking for a way to solve Hubby’s got problem without sending him into meat withdrawals (which he got–got horrendous cravings for it while on a “low purine” diet). As an alternative to this diet, I found the acid-alkaline stuff, and learned that some foods actually CHANGE their pH after passing through stomach acid: lemons are one.

    After making changes to our diet by including these acid-to-alkaline foods, I keep his gout largely at bay. I say “largely” because he still gets occasional attacks brought on by barometric pressure–nothing I can do about that, except maybe buy a hyperbaric chamber for him to crawl into.

    I had previously tried using calcium carbonate supplements (it too changes your pH), but found it gave Hubby athlete’s foot–a sign of TOO MUCH alkalinity. Up to that point, he’d never had athlete’s foot before. I switched to using these convertible-pH foods, and he’s as fine as I can get him.

    • calcium CITRATE and foods that contain citrate are good for breaking up kidney and gall stones, may also be useful for gout considering gout is uric acid crystals, same substance in some kidney stones. Also how much liquid is he drinking? Not enough fluids also contribute to kidney stones, may be a relation with gout

      • Lemons contain citrate, so maybe that’s why lemons helped? (and not because of the acid-alkaline thing, which I don’t really like haha).

  77. I would think that it makes a difference whether the milk is raw or pasteurized, too, a fact that is virtually always disallowed.

  78. I have loved milk all of my life and drink it with most every meal. I think it helps bones most in our developing years when we are building bones in childhood, teen years and young adulthood. It gives me no digestive problems and I will drink it as always.

  79. Chris,
    What are your thoughts on the ideas that too much salt can be bad for bone health (I know your salt recommendation 4000 and 5990 milligrams day)? Is it the excess phosphorus that usually goes with high salt intake?
    http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/diet-dangers

    And do you think too much saturated fat is bad for bone health?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16365076

    Is it maybe that high dairy consumption in the absence of a nutrient dense diet leads to weak bones due to other micronutrients not being present (magnesium, K2, etc)?

    • I read the abstract.one may want to ask”what kind of saturated fat?” fat from low quality chicken fed rancid and trans fats?, fats from animals pumped with antibiotics and hormones (both accumulate in fats)?Fats from crisco? fats from hydrogenated oils (full of trans fats) the study says nothing about the FAT QUALITY in the abstract..
      It also seems intake of beneficial veggies or sun exposure was ignored

  80. I am curious about whether the evidence that calcium supplements can contribute to CVD has any implications for the possibility of “excessive” consumption of dairy products. That is, could someone consume too much calcium through dairy products and as a result increase calcifications in their blood vessels? Also: Chris, don’t you feel you owe your readers just a minimal warning that raw milk can in fact be dangerous? http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-videos.html

    • raw milk is subjected to more stringent criteria than reg milk and homogenized milk CAUSES fat deposits in your arteries.
      Time for the unpublished study (80s) to be publicized again.
      I read its entirety when the magazine from the TM organization published it. VERY Convincing hence its lack of publication by the funding source: the milk industry.
      Raw milk cheese from milk contaminated by listeria (as I recall) was found sterile from the bug in FRANCE (Roquefort) a few Years ago.

  81. Good to hear that in this case conventional wisdom isn’t wrong about milk and healthier bones. As a kid, I grew up with the knowledge that drinking milk helps give you stronger bones, so at least that’s still true.

    • I wouldn’t quite go that far in assuming that milk builds strong bones as there just isn’t definitive research out there to prove this theory and in fact there is far too much evidence that counters this theory suggesting it has no affect to bone density either way. And if you only drink milk with the singular thought of improving bone density and don’t take into consideration all the other factors then you may be missing key aspects to your health. What Chris said in this article is that the myth that drinking milk actually causes loss of bone density because of its acidic nature is likely just that, a myth. Science isn’t even in agreement on that point but it appears more likely that Chris is correct in this regard that there is ample evidence to suggest that milk being only mildly acidic won’t have a significant factor on release of calcium from bones into the body to help the process of balancing pH. If anything the SAD or Western diets along with lack of movement are to blame for over acidification and loss of bone minerals.

      • So, if milk is a problem, what’s up with the Maasai? Known for their big and strong bones, they exist mainly on milk, beef meat and beef blood. I absolutely agree that milk does not work for everyone, but some seem to thrive on it.

    • There are 2 claims that need to be distinguished from one another.
      1. The claim that the calcium in milk gives us stronger bones – this has not been proven.
      2. The claim that milk produces an acid ash that requires minerals to be chelated from our bones, hence contributing to osteoporosis. This also has not been proven, and moreover does not make sense, and that is the point made by Chris’ article here.

      If a person debunks one of these unproven claims, they not by default proposing the other!

    • Stan that is also my experience and it is well reported.
      RAW milk cheese does not produce adverse effects with me though
      You can try.
      In general cheese is MUCH better than milk.
      Butter has no (almost no) protein left thus no reaction with it and it’s a good fat

    • Try sheep’s milk cheese. For me, better than goat’s, especially a well-matured, hard variety such as Spanish Manchego – gorgeous when eaten with a pear!

  82. HERE is a simple reference to an article published by Harvard school of public heath which refers to the Harvard Nurses study:

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/

    here is an excerpt:
    ” In particular, these studies suggest that high calcium intake doesn’t actually appear to lower a person’s risk for osteoporosis. For example, in the large Harvard studies of male health professionals and female nurses, individuals who drank one glass of milk (or less) per week were at no greater risk of breaking a hip or forearm than were those who drank two or more glasses per week. (2, 3) When researchers combined the data from the Harvard studies with other large prospective studies, they still found no association between calcium intake and fracture risk”

    • I don’t know … All I know that my bright endo does want me have dairy 2-3 times a day. And I trust her more than Harvard. Maybe because as far as I know she didn’t push negative eugenics and didn’t greet the Nazis on the Square with “Sieg Heil.”
      It’s possible that there are other (better? later?) studies.

      • your ENDO? What kind of study is she relying on???
        any training in Nutrition?
        Most doctors and specialists repeat the same inacurate ideas . look at cholesterol and how many USELESS statin prescription are written.
        Have they read the study called “are statins over-prescibed? ” and its conclusions?
        DR Sinatra says statins should be outlawed!

        • I don’t know which studies she is relying on, but I am pretty sure I can rely on her opinion. She’ll go far – she’s young.
          BTW, there is a new free paper in New York (The Epoch Times). Me being me I just skim it and at this point I don’t know what to think of it. It seems to be fine. In this weekend’s issue they have several health articles. A guy who writes about meat (he is for) has a following paragraph:
          ” I’m always wary of large studies of tens of thousands of people relying largely on “association” rather than solid facts. For instance, the sun rises every morning and we all get out of bed, but this is strickly an “association.”

          • You are right, associative studies can be misinterpreted and often do but they are the foundation of many hypothesis. The Scientific Method has four main elements:

            1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

            2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

            3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

            4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

            So macro studies and observational studies form the basis for the first two steps and entry into step three. Unfortunately it doesn’t become real science until step four is performed and then duplicated many times by others independently. That being said, associative studies and macro studies should never be ignored as all science often starts with this and when there is a correlation or a variable that looks like it may be causal then we need to take note and study further.

  83. YET, KRISS the Framingham study in 1998 concluded that people who ate dairy 2-3 times A WEEK had more fractures that those who did not. Harvard med school also says above 1.2g Ca /d quadruples the risk of DEATH from prostate cancer. Ca intake also put women at a higher risk of cancer uterus or breast forgot).
    If 30000 people followed by Harvard is not enough, ALL population studies show countries with the highest dairy intake have the HIGHEST rate of osteoporosis (Switzerland, Denmark, France all on top with KOREA on the bottom: they do not know what hip fracture is there…).

    Weston & Price had already established this about 90 years ago.

    Sorry I do not know what solid study you rely on.
    MUST also remember the never published study showing that homogenized milk caused fat deposits on arteries. The study was convincing, the fats analyzed were from the milk; I read it!! The dairy industry had sponsored the study and prevented it’s publication (early 80s).

    • “ALL population studies show countries with the highest dairy intake have the HIGHEST rate of osteoporosis (Switzerland, Denmark, France all on top with KOREA on the bottom: they do not know what hip fracture is there…).”
      Oh, I really don’t like this argument and I saw it many times. When did the Danish women wash their sheets and duvets by hand last time? BTW, usually Scandinavian countries are listed as the most osteoporotic and somehow nobody mention a tiny little detail – the lack of sun.
      And which Korea do you have in mind.

      • Nora Gedgaudas ( Primal body Primal mind) mentions what I said and I’d assume she is talking about S Korea.

        The sun exposure factor was taken into account.and exercise also, of course
        I have the graph at home and wish i had the reference.

        Perhaps Weston &Price foundation would be a good source to track the study.THey are adamant that milk is bad…
        BELIEFS cannot stand against FACTS

        • WAPF says supermarket milk is bad, while raw, unpasteurized, organic, full fat milk from grass fed pastured cows, preferably a heritage breed, is GOOD, very good for the body.

          • also, ferment that good milk, it will be even better.
            Hence why people do better on cheese and kefir than just milk.

      • I’ve seen studies testing osteoporosis in Switzerland and Denmark and concluding that excessive Vitamin A was the cause….

    • Chris, you are my hero. Thank you for spreading the truth! Diseases linked to dietary choices are one of the best evidences of health outcomes. If the people who are drinking the most milk also have the highest rate of osteoporosis and hip fractures, then we are being fooled when we are told that milk equals bone health. Old belief patterns about diet are hard to break, but we must look at the very convincing evidence that is right in front of our face as long as we choose to look for it!

  84. I used to do the standard 3 servings of dairy/day and found it did not work for my body. It was very mucus forming and heart burn disappeared when I stopped. I think 3 servings/day is too much for most people to handle, especially with compromised gut integrity. I still prefer to leave it out (unless every once in awhile and fermented) and don’t agree with the practices of the dairy industry. I’ll stick to my liquid ionic minerals 🙂

    • @Kristen. I’d be keen to know more about liquid ionic minerals. I bought Body Balance with Sea Nine but it doesn’t have the levels of minerals etc. on the bottle and neither does the web site. I need to know the iodine level in this stuff. Does anyone know? The sellers won’t divulge this information and I have 3+ bottles of it I’d like to consume.

  85. I’d like to point out that there is a HUGE difference between pasteurized milk and raw milk. For instance a cat can’t drink pasteurized milk because it will get sick. But a cat will thrive, as my cat does, on raw milk. What would all these test look like if they compared raw to pasteurized milk? I feed my whole family raw milk and only see good from it. Considering that ultra-pasteurized milk can have a shelf life of 50+ days unrefrigerated is it really even a food anymore? It’s not something I would ever feed my family. . .

    • Urban legend. Milk and cod liver oil are low in taurine. Cooking has a negative impact on the bioavailability of taurine in cats. So its not the pastuerized milk that is unhealthy, it is the lack of taurine in the diet. Obviously, plenty of cats thrive on a modern, cooked-food, pastuerized milk diet.

      Even raw milk will still prompt overt or sub-clinical inflammation and protein allergy. Just because you don’t feel it, doesn’t mean its not happening or won’t occur over time. Bottom line, milk is not naturally designed to be drunk beyond weaning, nonwithstanding the genetic mutation for lactose in Northern Europeans.

  86. I found this interesting, but have to question if this study was based on grass fed dairy vs corn fed. Theoretically the dairy products from corn fed cows, devoid of K2, but still loaded with calcium, COULD contribute to osteoporosis, but not because of the ash theory mentioned. The studies that I have read have suggested that dairy products from corn fed cows, loaded with antibiotics, bgh and devoid of K2 can facilitate the calcium being ushered into our arteries vs our bones. What are your thoughts on this?

    • I haven’t seen any evidence that any dairy products are convincingly linked to osteoporosis. However, I always recommend dairy from pasture-raised animals for numerous other reasons.

      • check these:

        Turner LW, et al, Osteoporotic fracture among older U.S. women: risk factors quantified. J Aging Health 1998 / 10 (3) / 372-391. , Owusu W, et al, Calcium intake and the incidence of forearm and hip fractures among men. J Nutr 1997 / 127 (9) / 1782-1787. , Feskanich, D. et al, Milk ,dietary calcium ,and bonefractures in women, a 12 year prospective study. Am. J. Public Health 1997 / 87 (6) / 992-997. , Meyer HE, et al, Dietary factors and the incidence of hip fracture in middle-aged Norwegians. A prospective study. Am J Epidemiol 1997 / 145 (2) / 117-123. , Tavani A, et al, Calcium, dairy products, and the risk of hip fracture in women in northern Italy. Epidemiology 1995 / 6 (5) / 554-557. , Meyer HE, Risk factors for hip fracture in a high incidence area: a case-control study from Oslo, Norway. Osteoporos Int 1995 / 5 (4) / 239-246. , Michaelsson K, et al, Diet and hip fracture risk: a case-control study. Study Group of the Multiple Risk Survey on Swedish Women for Eating Assessment. Int J Epidemiol 1995 / 24 (4) / 771-782. , Cumming RG, et al, Case-control study of risk factors for hip fractures in the elderly. Am J Epidemiol 1994 / 139 (5) / 493-503. , Nieves JW, et al, A case-control study of hip fracture: evaluation of selected dietary variables and teenage physical activity. Osteoporos Int 1992 / 2 (3) / 122-127. , Wickham CA, et al, Dietary calcium, physical activity, and risk of hip fracture: a prospective study. BMJ 1989 / 299 (6704) / 889-92. , Cooper C, et al, Physical activity, muscle strength, and calcium intake in fracture of the proximal femur in Britain. BMJ 1988 / 297 (6661) / 1443-1446

  87. What is “ash” in this context? Is ash the right term? “Acid ash” or “alkaline ash” being produced by digestion of milk sounds like mumbo jumbo similar to “meat turns into black tar-like substances in your gut.”

  88. Well this is a bit of a bold statement to make on a topic that is certainly debatable scientifically. The general rule of thumb I tell my clients is until you see that statement that “Milk builds strong bones” on a milk carton rather than in an advertisement, assume it doesn’t. The FDA regulates what you can say on a food label, where the FTC governs most advertisements and the bar is lower for advertisements. To date their exists little evidence and certainly not enough evidence of good peer reviewed studies that show milk helps bone density and as such you don’t see those claims on a milk container and haven’t in 50 years even though they are trying hard to prove it. The milk industry is pouring millions into research to try and scientifically support their hypothesis as obviously this would be good for sales but has failed to do so in a scientifically significant way. Osteoporosis on a macro level is generally highest in societies with some of the highest dairy consumption and lowest in countries where dairy products are hard to come by. Bone density responds much better to resistance training or laboring in general, not dairy consumption. Being Paleo means not eating highly processed food by animals that have been shot up full of hormones, antibiotics and fed unnatural food products. Today’s milk would not fit a healthy Paleo standard by any stretch of the imagination. More likely Paleo would potentially include milk/dairy products from other wild animals that may have been domesticated like sheep or goats. Add to that the overwhelming reaction many people have to milk such as a lack of lactase to break down the lactose sugars and or the protein allergies that are causing build-up of phlegm in the mucus membranes and you get a lot or reasons to leave modern day dairy milk behind.

    • Thank you for your insight. I have given up dairy the last 2 months and have had such great success with clearing out my sinuses and having better free flowing mucous in addition to relief from menstrual cramps that Ive been suffering from for over a decade. I am not touting the evils of dairy, I believe it is potentially possible to eat it in moderation if it were free from all of the processing and hormonal components you mentioned. I have not yet reintroduced sheep or goat products, I have been toying with doing that but for now am enjoying the benefits of a dairy free (other than organic grass fed butter and ghee) lifestyle.

      • The fact that you or anyone else feels better when they eliminate dairy does not prove anything about the overall effects of dairy on bone health, cardiovascular health, or any aspect of health. It just means it’s not a good choice for you. That’s why I recommend that everyone eliminate dairy for at least 30 days to find out.

        • I would like to know what type of dairy in the highest intake and what type in the lowest intake. Is this commercial ultra-pasteurized, homogenized milk being drank. What’s the breakdown in the fat % drank. There’s a lot of skim milk being drank out there. The synthetic vitamins it’s fortified with are useless – they’re not going to make it to the bones and not only calcium is needed for bone health. I still think it’s not the milk, it’s the way it’s processed. Like Chris said, too many confounding factors. How can natural raw milk – it’s sole design to feed a fast growing infant mammal and make it’s bones strong and healthy while doing it – be bad for the bones? The closest to raw I can find around me (it’s illegal!!!) is low-heat pasteurized from grass-fed dairy about 4 hours from where I live. the cream, buttermilk, butter and whole milk are all amazing. The chocolate milk is to die for (only allow myself a small glass. :)) Commercial dairy is what messes with me, Not the cheeses, though. I do agree it doesn’t need to be drank with every meal. It’s a meal supplement. Heck, it can be a meal on its own.

        • Eliminating dairy does not tell someone what is happening with their bones.

          I suggest learning the status of your bones currently and then eliminate dairy for six weeks followed by another test of your bone status.

          Personally, I have very, very small amounts of dairy and have strong bones but it could be the exercise I do or the K2 (natto and supplements ) so each individual should work on what works for them by using tests.

    • Observational links between dairy consumption and osteoporosis are not convincing because there are numerous confounding factors. I linked to several studies in the article which directly contradict the idea that dairy is associated with poor bone health.

      I’m not suggesting dairy is right for everyone, nor did I suggest that it is better than strength training for bone health, but there is little to no peer-reviewed evidence that it has negative health impacts on a population-wide basis. The fact that it wasn’t consumed during the Paleolithic isn’t a valid reason not to consume it now.

      • I don’t disagree Chris, there is almost less research on the theory that Milk is somehow bad for bones but the milk industry and the general medical complex have suggested for decades that it is good for bones without the valid research to support it. And indeed you are correct in the countries where bone density is high and dairy consumption low, you see much more physical labor which likely accounts for the bone resorption. That though is probably the weakest reason for supporting any consumption of dairy given all the other science and knowledge we do know about the process of producing dairy products and the side effects in individuals. As for Paleo, I also agree that just because something is not technically Paleo does not mean we are not adapted to consume it and in fact adaptation is very regional along ones heritage and geographic region of their ancestors. That being said, Paleo spans almost 500,000 years and in fact their is evidence of fermented dairy product during what might be considered the later years of the Paleolithic period. That being said, fermented diary is radically different than plain old cow’s milk with both less Lactose and improved digestive enzymes and healthy bacteria.

      • I read (1) and (2) which i was familiar with.
        Phosphoric acid – a form of phosphorus – if (2) is correct should have actually increased ca retention; it did not.
        (2) is not convincing because it was not run long term and nothing proves that all P did not end up in INSOLUBLE Ca phosphate… not excreted and explaining a higher Ca retention.
        Short-term studies like that are useless!
        Framingham published in 98(?) is worth re-reading because I think they looked at fracture incidence(not osteoporosis with densitometry a poor evaluation of bone strength).
        The conclusion was the opposite of yours KRISS.

      • To me, the fact that some cultures have people that are over 100 years old with strong bones and clear arteries is evidence that what they have in common is probably a good thing for humans to be doing.
        What the five Blue Zones have in common is consuming little meat and dairy while large (80% +) of calories from whole plant-based foods.

    • Wow – well, one point you’ve completely missed is that most Paleo dieters wouldn’t be drinking milk or eating dairy ANYWAY, but Primal dieters who did would likely consume raw dairy from grass-fed cows NOT treated with hormones or antibiotics. That’s kind of the point of eating a whole-foods diet.

      A great read, and one I recommend to everyone, is “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” by Weston A. Price. http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Price/dp/0916764206/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378186293&sr=1-1

      I won’t go into a description here, but he studied traditional groups of people all over the world, and documented what they ate. Some of the healthiest people on the planet ate mostly whole grain breads, and cheeses, butter, and milk from grassfed cows for their entire lives, and were extremely healthy with no tooth decay, AND they lived to be very old. Obviously some folks have NO trouble digesting dairy and remaining healthy on it!

      Not everyone has a problem with dairy, and some thrive on it. If you have a problem, skip it. It’s really that simple!

      • “The China Study” (the most comprehensive nutrition study ever) paints a very different picture. It advocates a whole foods, plant based diet which creates optimum health for the human species. That lifestyle is more sustainable for the environment and for humans.

        Only plants have extreme restorative properties, enough so to DEclog arteries that have been junked up by the fat and cholesterol of animal protein.

        I’ll stick with the research that can not be traced back to a multi-billion dollar industry like meat and milk who have strong incentive to convice the public of their health claims.

        • Many have criticized the China Study but that aside, the five Blue Zones containing a larger percentage of people healthy at 100+ show the same common threads, little dairy and meat, 80% + of calories from whole plant-based foods.
          Long after we are gone maybe science will have something clearer but I am satisfied and other studies have not proved to me anything contrary.

  89. Ah ha, I KNEW my body wasn’t crazy for craving dairy during pregnancy! I’ve been chugging whole milk and eating bowls of full-fat Green Yogurt topped with chopped fruit. I guess my body just needs extra calcium while it’s creating a whole new skeleton. 🙂

  90. My limited observation of me and my half sister….. I ate LOTS dairy throughout my life and I have low bone density. My sister did not and her bones are fine. We are in our early 70’s. I see this inconsistency with others I have talked with on the subject. I think the verdict is still out as to what exactly causes osteoporosis.

    I am presently going with the hypothesis that excess dairy throughout one’s life can cause the bones to age faster due to having to deal with all that calcium. Much like the skin aging faster when exposed to excess amounts of sun.

    • I agree with you. My mother had a large glass of milk with each meal and by the time she died she had gone from 5-6 to 5-2. Not a great recommendation to me.

      • That’s not compelling evidence. Any number of other things could have contributed to your mom’s decrease in height.

      • I’m going to speculate and say this could be because dairy contains a lot of calcium, and calcium is a known inhibitor of iron absorption. Iron is important for bone density as well, with women in the highest quintiles of iron ingestion having the greatest bone density. So drinking milk with every meal is not a good idea, and it’s not at all surprising to me that it would end in decreased bone density. Gotta keep calcium and iron separate. The devil is in the details, as always.

      • I’ve read articles suggesting that osteoporosis has as much to do with decreases in sex hormones as women age than anything else. That’s one of the reasons why women who have supplemented with hormone replacement of primarily progesterone have fewer incidences of osteoporosis in studies. Progesterone is very protective during peri-menopause, but especially during and after, and with the availability of bio-identical hormone replacement, there is little to fear from supplementing with progesterone.

        There is also a HUGE hereditary component as well…

        • Ann – I have been on HRT since the menopause and am now 76. I have quite bad osteo arthritis, but a recent fall from a small step ladder on to a hard pavement made me think that I’ve almost certainly not got osteoporosis (although I did have some very painful muscles)!

          • Fiona, You sound like MY mom! She is 93, and just moved in with us. My sister and I are constantly amazed at how healthy and vital she is for her age. We joke (kind of..) that she doesn’t fall – she bounces. She falls regularly, simply because she refuses NOT to be independent, and so rejects the helps that elders typically take along the way. She has a walker, which we have to continually remind her to use, but she is still getting up to toilet in the night all on her own. The other interesting thing about her, which also concerns sex hormones, is that she did NOT supplement with hrt, but had her last baby, me, at 46 years of age, after she was well into the early stages of menopause. I have heard, and do believe, that the later one concludes menopause, the better the health in old age, and the longer one tends to live.

            I think it is a statement about the way we eat here in the states that women here have such difficulty navigating menopause. To hear stories of women in other countries breezing through without a concern makes me think we probably have too much stress, too little connection to our inner selves, poor diets, and perhaps poor medical interventions.

    • Seeing as how many (most?) people mix their iron-rich foods with calcium-rich foods like dairy (for example: burger + cheese), I think this is a major confound in any dairy-more osteoporosis correlations. Iron is important for bones too, and calcium inhibits iron absorption. I’m not certain of the stats, but I think osteoporosis is more prevalent in females? As soon as something is gendered like that, and we’re talking about nutrient deficits causing diseases, iron springs immediately to mind. Especially given eating patterns, with the over-promotion of “dairy with every meal”. Not a good idea, since we also need to absorb iron. Personally, I started to develop weaker teeth (more easily chipped) when I was not getting enough iron, and drank a lot of milk with almost every meal. But the explanation of calcium inhibiting iron absorption makes way more sense to me than anything convoluted I’ve heard about the “large” amount of calcium in milk (or any other explanation why milk would cause osteoporosis). One glass of milk has 30% of the calcium needed. Not an extremely large amount. And after all, babies grow strong and healthy bones on milk, as do other young animals . . . just my 2 cents.

    • Could it be from the type of milk you drank (supermarket, non organic, residuals from hormones/antibiotics, fat removed, homogenized, pasteurized, additives)?

      Wheras, someone drinking the organic, non pasteurized, non homogenized, no hormones or antibiotic, no additives, milk from healthy grass fed cows might have better benefits than someone not drinking no milk at all (hence not having supermarket milk)?

  91. Some weeks ago a bus passed over the legs of the guy who sells me raw milk, he’s the one who milks the cows and has done for years, he drinks some milk always while milking the cow.

    Well, he’s 65 years old, the bus that passed over his legs was a passenger bus, it was at slow speed but he didn’t get any broken bone!

    I can’t think of anything else than milk (natural milk) giving such constitution to bones.

    • no. im doing a debate on milk, and honestly milk contribiutes to acne, osteoporosis, and obesity. These diseases come from the artificial hormones and substances in milk. Milk contains 12 grams of sugar, 8 grams cholestaral, and contains no fiber. a reason why america is obese is because of the lack of fiber. and milk contains no fiber. a much easier way to get your protien safely without being so high in saturated fat like milk, is to eat vegetables. Milk is so high in fat. Its endangering to our health your brainwashed by the media and advertisments, they also represent soda, and juices, so your going to just believe that as well? btw this is coming from a 15 year old you just got told.

      • You will come to the truth on your own. You sound like a lot of us when we were your age. Don’t stop researching and looking for the truth. Your strong values are exactly what this world needs.

        If you are open minded at all, a nice start would be Sally Fallon’s “The Oiling of America” free on youtube, and perhaps the Gary Taubes and Robert Lustig lectures would be interesting to you. Should you decide to get more advanced in your point of view that includes social justice with respect to global food systems, check out Lierre Keith and Derrick Jensen.

        Keep the fire.

  92. Great article; I’m glad that most people in the paleosphere have no problem amending our viewpoint when solid research comes out. However, this still leaves a couple things…do the benefits of even grass-fed, raw dairy outweigh the negative side effects? Whole9 writes extensively about dairy in their Manifesto citing things such as:

    1. Growth Hormone stimulation (it’s meant for developing cows to add weight)
    2. The casein and whey can instigate a histamine response/cross reactor with gluten (I guess not problematic for all people).
    3. Fairly significant insulin response (not a huge issue for active people either I suppose).

    They do say that raw dairy can promote beneficial gut bacteria, but I’m still left wondering…at the end of this whole thing should we incorporate it (grass-fed, raw) into our diet for the health benefits or are we just better off getting our calcium from our veggies, etc?

    I am totally down for adding something to the mix if you can’t get it elsewhere-I take FCLO for that very reason and have no aversion to downing some raw frozen beef liver every now and then because there really aren’t any other sources for what those types of things offer.

    Thoughts? Thanks so much for your amazing work and contribution and for keeping it real 🙂

    • 1. There’s little evidence that this matters in humans.
      2. Only problematic in those sensitive to casein, which is a small minority.
      3. Only matters in those with significant insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome.

      As I’ve said many times, tolerance to dairy is individual… but the vast majority of research on the effects of dairy on humans (rather than mechanistic studies speculating on growth hormone, or animal studies) show that dairy has beneficial effects on health.

      • Thanks for the reply, Chris. Is it something you think we should experiment eating because there are health benefits exclusive to it? My only beef with dairy is its something I can easily overeat because it’s delicious (not that steak isn’t delicious but it’s different).

        • “are we just better off getting our calcium from our veggies, etc?”
          Probably not. One would have to eat tons of veggies. Calcium is probably less absorbable from veggies and many people can’t eat this amount of veggies for a variety of reasons, including a tendency to form stones.

          • Fruits, vegetables, fish, beans, soy, and seeds are all viable sources of calcium. You don’t need to drink milk to get your daily consumption of calcium.

            • I would agree that we do not need to drink the milk of a cow, a human yes at the beginning of life, but not a cow.
              Considering the fact that most people in America are eating meat, it is best that they avoid drinking milk as a calcium supplement as it is a total wash with this combination.

              I am on a plant based diet and have been for 3 years.
              It is very natural to me and I am able to find plenty of alternative sources of calcium that I used to think that I was getting from milk.

              Remember that not everyone in the world consumes dairy products and these people tend not to have osteoporosis. The highestt rates of this disease are in countries where dairy product consumption is very high.

          • totally! you better stay of thoose veggies if you want to be healthy. THAT is whats bad for you, not cow’s milk. taking milk from cows is natural. (just like when calves drink human breastmilk.) you know what really works for your health? bacon. the plant have feelings too. your eating their babies! think about the poor bananas!

      • As a high frequency migraineur who has found milk products and gluten to be primary triggers, along with high histamine foods such as fermented foods, I often wonder if:

        a. the migraines are solely attributed to histamine intolerance – histamine released from gluten immune response and dairy immune response/histamine found in dairy itself

        b. the migraines are solely attributed to auto-immune response (gluten well-known now for inducing neurological problems – new test coming out from Cyrex labs for tTG-6, tissue transglutaminase – 6)
        and that there is cross-reactivity with proteins in milk products which are “like” gluten

        c. combination of the above

        If b or c, I wonder how rare casein sensitivity is given the large number of migraineurs who report milk products as triggers?

        • Merhaba, Nilofer. Regarding b. There have been a lot of studies done on alpha 1 beta-casein in New Zealand and some other countries. This little molecule is a big trouble maker. It originated around 7,000 years ago as a mutation in Northern European cows (mainly Freisian/Holstein and Ayrshire). Herds in much of Asia, Africa and parts of Southern Europe remain naturally high in alpha 2 cows. New Zealand is steathily converting their herds to alpha 2 while denying alpha 1 is an issue. Fonterra have patented genotyping technology for both bulls and cows. When the time is right, I reckon they’ll spring alpha 1 milk on the market as the world’s biggest importer of dairy and the rest of the competition will be caught on the back foot 15 years behind. In the meantime we get to enjoy stuff like juvenile Diabetes Mellitis and heart disease.

          Beta caso-morphine (the devil in the milk) is exacerbated by pasteurisation.

          Very interesting about a 6th tTG. Our lab still only tests for tTG-2. Pretty useless as when it comes back as negative, it gives people the false impression their bodies have no conflict with gluten.

        • Not to answer your question, but to share information that I read somewhere else (Barron) that migraines can be stopped with magnesium (IV?). Just leaving you with a hint here for you to research.
          Also, I read and I have found it to be true, that whole raw milk helps to nourish our adrenals and it has certainly helped (along with the Fatigue to Fantastic product line at Swanson~best price~) me with Adrenal Fatigue. I was juicing lots of raw veggies, Kale, etc. and limiting Himalayan sea salt and eating a lot of fruit also…And my preexisting, but not too adverse, Adrenal Fatigue turned into major Adrenal Fatigue. There were some other major things that I was doing incorrectly for ME that brought it on, mostly not using salt and drinking too much water. I now balance my diet with SALT, raw milk, pastured eggs, etc. and veggies and I’m recovering. Plus, I’ve added the full compenents of carnitine and ribose, which a study showed in three weeks helped to increase energy by 35 to 45% for those with fatigue issues…I will continue drinking raw whole milk, whereas pasteurized milk makes me extremely sick even in omelets!

        • I’ve had success with reducing frequent painful migraines by eliminating all gluten. I still can tolerate raw and regular milk, and do not get any inflammation whatsoever. But my heritage is from two ethnicities that have used dairy products for a long time… I think this will depend on each individual and you just need to try it. I take magnesium every day in pill form. I tried mag IVs but who can run to get one every time you get a migraine? Plus, it did not seem to help to prevent them nor help when I actually had one while having a migraine. For me, no dairy product at all has been a trigger for migraines, and everything is pointing to just gluten.

      • Just watched Marc Ryan’s videos with Datis Kharrazian about healing Hashimoto’s. They contend there is a low thyroid epidemic that is mostly Hashimoto’s- an autoimmune disease that causes the body to attack the thyroid AND also, potentially, the brain. Cyrex labs is used to discover which tissues are being attacked, but gluten AND dairy are highly implicated- they contend the numbers are very high.

  93. Thanks for clarifying this. I wonder, is there any evidence of “molecular mimicry” /autoimmune response against bone tissue if the body were to produce antibodies against dairy? I recall reading that gluten has been implicated in osteoporosis in this manner, beyond the “loss of nutrients” explanation of poor digestive health in general as a cause of osteoporosis.

    • Interesting question, Nilofer. I am both dairy and gluten sensitive, but ate copious amounts of both all my life until 7 years ago when I was first tested, after I was diagnosed with osteoporosis. My 16 year dependence on inhaled asthma steroids ended several months after I was told to stop dairy. Steroid inhalers also interfere with nutrient absorption. For me, all the years of milk and other dairy did not protect my bones. I’ve read if you take in TOO much dairy (I was addicted to it) you lose calcium in your urine (?)

    • If this article clarified anything for you then you better do more research…
      Drop dairy and get more calcium, D3 and K2 and you will have strong bones and maybe clear arteries.

    • You must have read a different article, I did not see anything clarified in this one!

      Instead of trying to look at the ins and outs which are far from known look at the long-living cultures to see what they consume while aging with strong bones and clear arteries.
      The top five I looked where there are far more of the population over 100 and active have consumed little dairy and meat. No processed foods to speak of but plenty of whole plant-based foods, including grains.

      Science is likely 100 years away from understanding what excessive protein does to the body. Given the vast amounts of money spent by dairy, meat and egg industries we are a long way from knowing the truth.

      There is no more dependable data available than those living today who are over 100 years old and healthy.

      • Hi Richard,

        Why do you think excess protein would be the cause of the problems we know, and how do you defin “excess” ?
        I would first think of blaming trans fat, sat fat, refined sugars, sodas and juices, bacon and charcuterie, most people not drinking enough water, air & water pollution, social stress and of course lack of exercise and CAFO breeding and everything that comes with it (hormones, antibiotics etc.)
        If I’m not mistaken the guess that excess protein would be harmful if precisely the “acidification” hypothesis addressed in this article and which I have seen questioned in various places.
        Specifically, do you mean just “protein” or “animal protein” ?
        Nearly everyone agrees red meat intake should be pretty low, and you should avoid deli meat most of the time.
        But I think one does really have to be a “meatosaur” to really eat “excess” chicken for example which is considered to be one of the best sources of protein avalaible. Providing your chicken is on top of that organic, I believe you should be safe. Same for a fish that doesn’t concentrate too high level of metals, like salmon (and unlike tuna)

        What do you think ?
        Regards,
        R.

        • It is highly likely that you will only consume excess animal protein given the amount in plants. There are many studies indicating the harm done by excess animal protein, usually measured about 100gr daily.
          However, as I have repeated many times….the thing to look at are the long-lived cultures like Okinawan and others that consume over 80% of their calories consuming whole plant-based foods. Little meat and dairy got many of those people to live over 100 years with strong bones and clear arteries. I find the Blue Zones to be much more indicative of what I want to follow rather than waiting another fifty years to get final answers on milk, eggs, red meat…

          • Yeah, but what I was trying to say is that 1) excess protein is the least of our concern, 2) you can’t express general rules about nutrition without looking at who you are talking, which means you just can’t make general rules at all, especially about things that are highly unclear and heatily debated such as whether high protein consumption is a problem or not.

            Vegetarians thought for decades that algae contained vitamin B12… until new analysis methods found the fairest part of it were only analogs that the body could not use.
            “Salt is bad”… but many elderly suffer from dehydratation due to lack of sodium in the blood.
            The same is true for protein. An american male with over 100gr. protein is probably in excess. The european average protein intake is already about 10gr lower which is huge. An european woman is fairly likely to lack protein, fat, salt, and generally speaking balanced macronutrients.
            Someone eating 5 yogurts, 2 l. of milk and 200 gr. of cheddar per day is very likely to have excess calcium and salt and animal protein and casein. That is for sure.

            But of you begin to scare the shit out of people about the dangers of excess calcium, you’ll have many people completely shy away from dairy.
            Unfortunately, the plants we consume are not calcium rich at all. It’s very likely our ancestors got their calcium by eating bones, even if they didn’t eat that much of it.
            If someone gets scared and starts eating no dairy at all, who knows how it will affect his health? Not you…
            I work in the academic world. I’ve seen how research is actually made; sometimes it’s serious, sometimes it’s just a big joke.

            To rephrase your saying, I believe science is light years away from understanding anything solid about nutrition.
            A few studies about the “blue zones” can give hint about how to live and eat (yeah, you forgot the first part: everyday activity, healthy human relationships, trust in the future… Sardinians don’t think about how much proteins are in their dishes) but they don’t really help to understand how it all works.

            If you know a little statistics, you quickly understand that 95% of the research (which is mostly made by 23-year old Phds) is at best statistically not THAT significative, and a big third is just plain artistic blur.
            So my point is
            1) We don’t know sh*t, so don’t we try to sound like we know the truth
            2) Most importantly, every small bit of knowledge we have (like, “too much this is bad”) can *only* refer to a certain type of public, which are the people at risk;
            unfortunately,
            when someone says : “hey everyone!! stop eating saturated fat and cholesterol! heart disease blah blah”,

            who stops eating sat fat and cholesterol? Women and men who are the only ones already paying attention to the quality of what they eat, and are are now at risk of too low cholesterol consumption.

            Who doesn’t care and continues eating fries with fried chicken and cola? People already consuming too much sat and trans fat and sugar and proteins.

            So, back to my main point which fortunately you will actually try to adress this time:
            Maybe excess protein really is a problem in occidental diet.
            Simply, if it is, it is millions light years away from being the most important problem.
            Many others would come first, once again :
            1) sodas, sugars, high-fructose syrup, glucose-fructose, etc., aspartame;
            2) lack of exercise, water deficiency
            3) social stress, unemployment
            4) water pollution, air pollution, food additives, hormones, antibiotics
            5) trans fat
            6) salt
            7) excess sat fat and cholesterol
            8) “magic pill” mentality, too much attention given to the normal occasional dysfunctions of the body, lack of imagination, of purpose, gradual disappearance of old life guidelines based on religion
            and *maybe* if I’m in good mood under 9) i could be listing “excess animal protein”.
            Even though, I wish to remind you that the Sardinians, which are in the “Blue Zones”, tend to enjoy their sheep cheese.
            Ohmygod!! animal protein and dairy at the same time! How can they beyond 100 years old? How unfair.

            Serioulsy speaking, even with Atkins or Dukan, which are terrible, terrible diets to be followed more than, like, two weeks at a maximum without medical overview, the problems don’t arise from excess protein or animal protein for the difference it makes, but from the lack of everything else, especially carbs tha lack of which produce acetone.

            Every month we hear of an important molecule in that legume, or in that fish, or in that meat.
            How long until someone shows up with a research (fake or accurate) which shows that everything we’ve hold for true is now obsolete?

            Implying that every single animal protein that you eat is an excess protein is a cultist thing in exactly the same way that saying that Atkins without medical overview is safe is a cultist thing.
            Of course, those of the Paleos who say that all starch including rice, quinoa, oats and potato are bad are cultists as well. At this very moment there may be tens of thousands of people producing acetone in their bodies because of an inadequate Paleo or vegetarian diet with too little carb

            Protein is really the least of our concern. It’s super hard to get less than enough, and it’s pretty hard to get too much.
            On the contrary, it’s super easy to get too less or too much carbs, or fat, or vitamins.

Leave a Reply