A streamlined stack of supplements designed to meet your most critical needs - Adapt Naturals is now live. Learn more

A Silent Epidemic with Serious Consequences—What You Need to Know about B12 Deficiency

by

Published on

Reviewed by Chris Masterjohn, PhD

This tired man rubbing his eyes may be experiencing B12 deficiency.
Fatigue is a common symptom of B12 deficiency.

What do all of these chronic diseases have in common?

  • Alzheimer’s, dementia, cognitive decline, and memory loss (collectively referred to as “aging”)
  • Multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurological disorders
  • Mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and psychosis
  • Cardiovascular disease
  • Learning or developmental disorders in kids
  • Autism spectrum disorder
  • Autoimmune disease and immune dysregulation
  • Cancer
  • Male and female infertility

Answer: Their signs and symptoms can all be mimicked by a vitamin B12 deficiency.

An Invisible Epidemic

B12 deficiency isn’t a bizarre, mysterious disease. It’s written about in every medical textbook, and its causes and effects are well-established in the scientific literature.

However, the condition is far more common than most healthcare practitioners and the general public realize. Data from a Tufts University study suggests that 40 percent of people between the ages of 26 and 83 have plasma B12 levels in the low normal range—a range at which many experience neurological symptoms. Nine percent had an outright nutrient deficiency, and 16 percent exhibited “near deficiency.” Most surprising to the researchers was the fact that low B12 levels were as common in younger people as they were in the elderly. (1)

That said, this type of deficiency has been estimated to affect about 40 percent of people over 60 years of age. It’s entirely possible that at least some of the symptoms we attribute to “normal” aging—such as memory loss, cognitive decline, and decreased mobility—are at least in part caused by a deficiency.

Why Is It Underdiagnosed?

B12 deficiency is significantly underdiagnosed for two reasons. First, it’s not routinely tested by most physicians. Second, the low end of the laboratory reference range is too low.

This is why most studies underestimate true levels of deficiency. Many deficient people have so-called “normal” levels of B12.

Yet, it is well-established in the scientific literature that people with B12 levels between 200 pg/mL and 350 pg/mL—levels considered “normal” in the U.S.—have clear vitamin deficiency symptoms. (2) Experts who specialize in the diagnosis and treatment of a deficiency, like Sally Pacholok, R.N., and Jeffrey Stuart, D.O., suggest treating all patients that are symptomatic and have B12 levels less than 450 pg/mL. (3) They also recommend treating patients who show normal B12 levels but also have elevated urinary methylmalonic acid (MMA), homocysteine, or holotranscobalamin, which are other markers of a deficiency in vitamin B12.

B12 deficiency can mimic the signs of Alzheimer’s, dementia, multiple sclerosis, and several mental illnesses. Find out what this vitamin does and learn how to treat a deficiency. #B12 #B12deficiency #cognitivedecline

In Japan and Europe, the lower limit for B12 is between 500 and 550 pg/mL. Those levels are associated with psychological and behavioral symptoms, such as:

  • Cognitive decline
  • Dementia
  • Memory loss (4)

Some experts have speculated that the acceptance of higher levels as normal in Japan and the willingness to treat levels considered “normal” in the U.S. explain the low rates of Alzheimer’s and dementia in that country.

What Is Vitamin B12 and Why Do You Need It?

Vitamin B12 works together with folate in the synthesis of DNA and red blood cells. It’s also involved in the production of the myelin sheath around the nerves and the conduction of nerve impulses. You can think of the brain and the nervous system as a big tangle of wires. Myelin is the insulation that protects those wires and helps them to conduct messages.

Severe B12 deficiency in conditions like pernicious anemia (an autoimmune condition where the body destroys intrinsic factor, a protein necessary for the absorption of the vitamin) used to be fatal until scientists figured out death could be prevented by feeding patients raw liver, which contains high amounts of B12. But anemia is the final stage of a deficiency. Long before anemia sets in, deficient patients will experience several other problems, including fatigue, lethargy, weakness, memory loss, and neurological and psychiatric problems.

The Stages of a Deficiency

B12 deficiency occurs in four stages, beginning with declining blood levels of the vitamin (stage I), progressing to low cellular concentrations of the vitamin (stage II), an increased blood level of homocysteine and a decreased rate of DNA synthesis (stage III), and finally, macrocytic anemia (stage IV). (5)

Common B12 Deficiency Symptoms

The signs can look like the symptoms of several other serious disorders, and the neurological effects of low B12 can be especially troubling.

Here are some of the most common vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms:

  • Tingling or numbness in the hands and feet
  • Brain fog, confusion, and memory problems
  • Depression
  • Premature aging
  • Cognitive decline
  • Anemia
  • Weakness
  • Fatigue
  • Reduced appetite and weight loss
  • Constipation
  • Trouble balancing (6)

Children can also show symptoms, including developmental issues and learning disabilities if their B12 levels are too low.

Like what you’re reading? Get my free newsletter, recipes, eBooks, product recommendations, and more!

Why Is It So Common?

The absorption of B12 is complex and involves several steps—any of which can go wrong. Any of the following can cause B12 malabsorption:

  • Intestinal dysbiosis
  • Leaky gut and gut inflammation
  • Atrophic gastritis or hypochlorhydria, or low stomach acid
  • Pernicious anemia
  • Medications, especially proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) and other acid-suppressing drugs
  • Alcohol
  • Exposure to nitrous oxide, during either surgery or recreational use

This explains why a deficiency can occur even in people eating large amounts of B12-containing animal products. In fact, many of my patients that are B12 deficient are following a Paleo diet where they eat meat two or three times daily.

Who Is at Risk for a Deficiency?

In general, the following groups are at greatest risk for a deficiency:

  • Vegetarians and vegans
  • People aged 60 or over
  • People who regularly use PPIs or acid-suppressing drugs
  • People on diabetes drugs like metformin
  • People with Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, celiac, or IBS
  • Women with a history of infertility and miscarriage

Note to Vegetarians and Vegans: B12 Is Found Only in Animal Products

You cannot get B12 from plant-based sources. This vitamin is only found in animal products. That’s why vegetarians and vegans need to know the signs of deficiency—and the steps necessary to fix the problem.

B12 is the only vitamin that contains a trace element (cobalt), which is why it’s called cobalamin. Cobalamin is produced in the gut of animals. It’s the only vitamin we can’t obtain from plants or sunlight. Plants don’t need B12, so they don’t store it.

A common myth among vegetarians and vegans is that it’s possible to get B12 from plant sources like:

  • Fermented soy
  • Spirulina
  • Brewers yeast

However, plant foods said to contain B12 actually contain B12 analogs called cobamides that block the intake of and increase the need for true B12. (7) That explains why studies consistently demonstrate that up to 50 percent of long-term vegetarians and 80 percent of vegans are deficient in B12. (8, 9)

Seaweed is another commonly cited plant source of B12, but this idea is controversial. Research indicates that there may be important differences in dried versus raw purple nori; namely, raw nori may be a good source of B12, while dried nori may not be. One study indicated that the drying process used for seaweed creates B12 analogs, making it a poor source of the vitamin, while animal research suggests that dried nori can correct a B12 deficiency. (10, 11) Seaweed may provide B12, but it’s not clear if those benefits are negated when that seaweed is dried. I recommend caution for that reason.

The Impact of a Deficiency on Children

The effects of B12 deficiency on kids are especially alarming. Studies have shown that kids raised until age six on a vegan diet are still B12 deficient even years after they start eating at least some animal products. In one study, the researchers found an association between a child’s B12 status and their performance on testing measuring:

  • Spatial ability
  • Fluid intelligence
  • Short-term memory

Researchers found that formerly vegan children scored lower than their omnivorous counterparts in each area. (12)

The deficit in fluid intelligence is particularly troubling, the researchers said, because this area impacts a child’s ability to reason, work through complex problems, learn, and engage in abstract thinking. Defects in any of these areas could have long-term consequences for kids.

I recognize that there are many reasons why people choose to eat the way they do, and I respect people’s right to make their own choices. I also know that, like all parents, vegetarians and vegans want the best for their children. This is why it’s absolutely crucial for those that abstain from animal products to understand that there are no plant sources of B12 and that all vegans and most vegetarians should supplement with B12.

This is especially important for vegetarian or vegan children or pregnant women, whose need for B12 is even greater. If you’re not willing to take a dietary supplement, it may be time to think twice about your vegetarian or vegan diet.

How to Treat a Deficiency

One of the greatest tragedies of the B12 epidemic is that diagnosis and treatment are relatively easy and cheap—especially when compared to the treatment patients will need if they’re in a late stage of deficiency. A B12 test can be performed by any laboratory, and it should be covered by insurance. If you don’t have insurance, you can order it yourself from a lab like DirectLabs.com.

As always, adequate treatment depends on the underlying mechanism causing the problem. People with pernicious anemia or inflammatory gut disorders like Crohn’s disease are likely to have impaired absorption for their entire lives and will likely require B12 injections or high-dose oral cobalamin indefinitely. This may also be true for those with a severe deficiency that’s causing neurological symptoms.

Typically in the past, most B12 experts recommended injections over high-dose oral cobalamin for people with pernicious anemia and an advanced deficiency involving neurological symptoms. However, recent studies have suggested that high-dose oral or nasal administration may be as effective as injections for those with B12 malabsorption problems. (13, 14)

Try Supplementing

Cyanocobalamin is the most frequently used form of B12 supplementation in the U.S. But recent evidence suggests that hydroxocobalamin (frequently used in Europe) is superior to cyanocobalamin, and methylcobalamin may be superior to both—especially for neurological disease.

Japanese studies indicate that methylcobalamin is even more effective in treating neurological symptoms and that it may be better absorbed because it bypasses several potential problems in the B12 absorption cycle. (15, 16) On top of that, methylcobalamin provides the body with methyl groups that play a role in various biological processes important to overall health.

Optimize your B12 levels with Adapt Naturals.

Close the nutrient gap to feel and perform your best. 

A streamlined stack of supplements designed to meet your most critical needs.

Chris Kresser in kitchen

Change Your Diet

Nourishing your body through whole food is the best way to get the vitamins and nutrients you need. If you’re low on B12, try eating some vitamin-rich foods like:

Eating other kinds of seafood, like octopus, fish eggs, lobster, and crab, can also help you attain normal B12 levels. If you’re seafood-averse, you can also get this vitamin from:

  • Lamb
  • Beef
  • Eggs
  • Cheese

It’s important to note, though, that the amount of B12 in these foods is nowhere near as high as the levels in shellfish and organ meats.

What to Do if You’re Experiencing Vitamin B12 Deficiency Symptoms

If you suspect you have a deficiency, the first step is to get tested. You need an accurate baseline to work from.

If you are B12 deficient, the next step is to identify the mechanism causing the deficiency. You’ll probably need help from a medical practitioner for this part. Once the mechanism is identified, the appropriate form (injection, oral, sublingual, or nasal) of supplementation, the dose, and the length of treatment can be selected.

So, next time you or someone you know is “having a senior moment,” remember: It might not be “just aging.” It could be B12 deficiency.

Affiliate Disclosure
This website contains affiliate links, which means Chris may receive a percentage of any product or service you purchase using the links in the articles or advertisements. You will pay the same price for all products and services, and your purchase helps support Chris‘s ongoing research and work. Thanks for your support!

1,962 Comments

Join the conversation

  1. Thanks for your comment, Heidi. As I mentioned in original post she improved quickly, had a good night sleep and next day was back to her normal.
    I will definitely not give her 1mg B12 again. But now I am hesitant with even much smaller doze after this episode. And I am not sure whether it was caused by the supplement or it was food related.

  2. I don’t want to alarm you, but those could be very serious symptoms you daughter is experiencing. If she vomits or if the delayed speech/reactions are only on one side of her body, you need to bring her to an emergency to be properly evaluated. It may be completely coincidental that this is occuring when you supplement her. Supplementing a child with adult doses should probably be done only under medical supervision.

  3. I am in my mid 40’s. I became vegetarian about 2 years ago and vegan about 1.5 year ago.
    I saw improvements after the diet change but the real change happened after taking some B12 patches about a year ago.
    Since then I’ve been taking Jarrow B12 1mg almost daily.
    I have nail fungus on all fingers on one of the feet but since starting the B12 I can see continuous improvement. Nails became harder and not brittle and are growing and pushing the fungus away.
    The nails on the healthy foot also turned better looking, healthier.
    I feel it’s the B12 deficiency that caused the nail fungus or at least prevented the healing.
    I also have cracked tongue which also seems to be making improvement.
    I had eczema on my hands with very frequent flare-ups. This is all history now.
    My skin seemed to have thickened all over my body and I believe that contributed to the eczema going away. Very often I had stuffed/running nose and allergy like symptoms (sneezing, itchy eyes).
    This is gone now. I was very sensitive to temperature changes. I would start sneezing the moment I took my socks off during any season except the summer. This is no longer the case and I feel I tolerate low temperatures much better now. I used to sleep with socks since my feet always felt cold and sleeping without socks was not uncomfortable. Well, I am happy to report I have “normal” sleeping habit now and what a joy it is to be in bed bare foot!
    At one point I had vertigo symptoms. The GP refered me to MRI which discovered nothing and even though they suggested some kind of therapy it all died out and nobody contacted me.
    Well, knock on wood I no longer have the symptoms.
    After a physical workout I feel I am making faster and better recovery than any time before.
    I feel I have always been B12 deficient.
    I have not taken any tests so I don’t have any figures to post. It is just my feeling based on my experience in the last two years.
    As I said, during this period I made significant changes to my diet but my feeling is that B12 also played role in the changes I observed and it might even be the more important role.

    But the real reason I am writing is this:
    I gave B12 sublingual (Jarrow, 1mg) to my daughter (primary school age) on two occasions.
    Two or three hours after that she was not feeling OK on both of these occasions.
    The second time she complained of upset stomach (urge to vomit), sensitivity to light and noise, somewhat delayed speech/reactions and overall weakness. She had to lay down but recovered relatively quickly (an hour or two).
    I am not sure if this was caused by the B12 I have given her.
    But now I am scared to continue with this.
    My intention was to give her 1mg once a week just as a precaution thinking that she might have inherited the condition from me.
    Would appreciate any thoughts on this from the readers on this very helpful page.

    Thanks!

  4. Hi Chris,
    My son is age 6 and diagnosed with ASD. At the the age 2, a serum test showed a 1348 B12 result.
    We used methylB12 injections 2 to 3x a week for close to a year. He made good progress during that time but I can’t say it was the B12 b/c we also made dietary changes too. Injectons were difficult to give him so we stopped. Currently we are doing GAPS . Looking back I think his progress was the best during that time. But, I am confused, would a result of 1348 be a red flag for a defieciency?
    Is there an easier way to supplement?

  5. Hi, do you know of a good physician in the UK? I have been suffering from IBS/IBD problems for a while. Also I can’t buy Designs for Health Super Liquid Folate in the UK. is there another sub-lingual folate you would recommend

  6. Did any of you get told that you had siliac disease (? sp) My sister has that but also many of the symptoms I have read here. I have had a gastroplasty with banding and have no B-12 deficiancies but want to keep up on this whereas my friends who have had gastric bypass surgery are/have B-12 deficiencies. Information is power as well as knowledge. What is “gut leakage”…is that from a stapling of the stomach that maybe a pulled staple creates…My stomach is whole, never cut away from stapled parts, as some gastric bypass surgeries were. Thank you

  7. Fred, thanks for the tips. I normally avoid pills no matter how sick I am and try to heal through natural foods and rest which usually works. But in this case, I realized that I need a supplement for B12 given the long term symptoms I’ve been having. So I started on the B12 supplement alone, it’s the third day and I have suddenly developed a severe lower back pain with muscle cramp. It seems to be a symptom of low potassium caused due to healing? If so, how long does this condition last before the healing has progressed well enough for the potassium levels to go back up naturally? In other words, how long do you recommend taking potassium supplements? Finally can I drastically up potassium rich foods and avoid the supplement?

    • HI RR,

      Spasms like that are odten an early indicator of falling potassium and in me and some others happens as high as 4.2-4.3.

      Potassium rich foods can be helpful if you do it realiably every day and use the supplements for quick relief (from food 14-18 hours from ingestion to peak serum level). I find I need 2400mg suppplemental daily in 5 doses to avoid problems like spasms most days. I have no answer as to how soon the need for potassium goes down. One person has reported such of which I am aware. Interstingly, anybody who has no rrsponse to mb12/Metafolin/adb12 does not have an increase in potassium need and also doesn’t have the symtoms. In my case the system had never worked right and I had decades of pent up dealing demand. My body is still improving at 64. I have been at this for 9 years but had Metafolin only the last 4.

  8. I have been having symptoms of leg pain, numbness, weight loss, red eyes, burning sensation while urinating etc. for the last 1 year but no doctor was able to figure out. Luckily I chanced upon this blog recently and got a B12 test done right away. Just as I suspected, the result came back as 290 and now I am convinced this explains all my symptoms. So going to start on sublingual methycobalamain right away. Wondering if 1000mcg Jarrow (http://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B12-1000mcg-Lozenges/dp/B002FJW3ZY/ref=pd_sim_hpc_1) is good enough? I see Jarrow also has another 5000mcg one which seems too high a dose?

    Thanks a lot to everyone here for throwing light on this very key health issue.

    • Hi RR,

      The Jarrow 1mg is a 5 star quality mb12 supplement. When held under the lip for 45-120 minutes the approx absorbtion is 15-25% which means it is equivalent to a 200+-50mcg injection. When you start this with Metafolin if you were low enough to shut down a lot of healing, healing and cell formation will start up and potassium will plunge typically making a person feel really sick. It can even cause death if prolonged. Typically 2000-3000mg of additioanl potassium (potassium gluconate 99mg tablets timnes 20-30 per day in 5 doses or so) are3 needed tpo alleviate low potassium symptoms. Then typicalyy, the body that has started healing and the Metafolin titration typicall becomes adwquate at 2400-3200mcg for those without folate handling polymorphisms, 4000-6000mcg for those with folic acid only paradoxical folate deficiency and 15000mcg or so for those with folinic acid/veggie-folate paradoxical fiolate deficiency. This program usually needs a good assortment of vitamins and minerals to support high speed healing including omega3 oils and excluding glutathione or NAC which cause “detox”, which really is an induced severe folate and soon b12. deficiencies.

      • Hi Fred, so glad I caught you… I read a lot of your comments and most of it makes sense to me and I have a lot of symptoms that ppl here describe.
        Here is a riddle:
        My last too B12 tests showed as too high – more than 2000! So First my physician told me to take less of the B vitamin supplement (MegaFoods B complex – which if food based).
        Second time I tested, I didn’t take this – or the Multi Vitamin that I also take – the day before the test, and it showed up as more than 2000 again. I also checked serum folate – came up 17.7, which is normal.
        Fred, do you have any advise for me, may be you came across a situation like this? My Doc told me to not only stop my B complex, but also a Multi that I am taking. It is a Multi Vit-A-Min by Emerald Labs and has Coenzyme Folic Acid (L-5 Methyl Tetrahydofolate) and B12 as Methylcobalamin, both of which if I understand you correctly are active bioavailable sources.

        • Oh forgot to mention, that I also take L-Glutamine, NAC and ALA to help heal the leaky gut…

    • Hi RR,

      The Jarrow 1mg is a 5 star quality mb12 supplement. When held under the lip for 45-120 minutes the approx absorbtion is 15-25% which means it is equivalent to a 200+-50mcg injection and enough to start healing. When you start this with Metafolin if you were low enough to shut down a lot of healing, healing and cell formation will start up and potassium will plunge typically making a person feel really sick. It can even cause death if prolonged. Typically 2000-3000mg of additioanl potassium (potassium gluconate 99mg tablets timnes 20-30 per day in 5 doses or so) are needed to alleviate low potassium symptoms. Then typically, the body that has started healing and the Metafolin titration typicall becomes adwquate at 2400-3200mcg for those without folate handling polymorphisms, 4000-6000mcg for those with folic acid only paradoxical folate deficiency and 15000mcg or so for those with folinic acid/veggie-folate paradoxical fiolate deficiency. This program usually needs a good assortment of vitamins and minerals to support high speed healing including omega3 oils and excluding glutathione or NAC which cause “detox”, which really is an induced severe folate and soon b12. deficiencies.

      • Fred, I have been taking the Now liquid form (you leave it in your mouth for 30 seconds). Is that a good form, or should I switch to the Jarrow? Also, I see that you mention NAC, which I have been taking for a year or more … is that not good for me? I take it because I’m a smoker.

  9. I was very sick for about five months – I felt like I had the flu 24/7. I was exhausted, dizzy, depressed, no appetite (lost 20 pounds), had night sweats, tremors, numbness in thumbs and feet, blurry vision. My blood test showed a slightly high MCH value, which my doctor said was not significant. I asked about B12 and was told that my level was normal at 250. I decided on my own to take supplements and have been taking 3 1,000 mcg of sublingual methylcobalamin tablets a day for about two months….and feel much better. Not 100% but I have energy again. I’m convinced that was the problem. Thank heavens I don’t have to rely on my doctor for treatment for this!

  10. Hi,
    Does anyone know of any affects of following a Paleo diet. I have Pernicious Anemia and would like to have better energy levels. I was really lucky as I was getting tested for diabetes and the docs found I had really low B12 levels. I get B12 injections every 3 months and the only symptoms I have are tiredness,anxiety and tinnitus. None are too bad. Was thinking of switching to a Paleo diet to see if it could help also wondered if food allergies may be related?

    Any advice welcomed 🙂

    • Hi Eilidh,

      If you were to take Jarrow or Enzymatic Therapy mb12 and adenosylb12 (dibenvozide, and Metafolin and a few other things all of the tiredness and others can go away. However, with the anxiety as a symptoms that would appear to indicagte that you will likely have some hypersensitivitities to certain deficient nutrients (dibencozide, mb12, l-carnitine fumarate) and some others. A careful titration can take care of that and actually heal all your symptoms. Otherwise, they will continue to worsen because hydroxcbl once each 3 months only does about 1% of what a real b12 can do.

  11. please could any body help me understand what i have. I’m 52 years old f email @ the beginning I had severe diarrhea last 10 days after antibiotic every thing back to normal..MY real problem I feel MY feet first then both legs to my waist feel always numb then i couldn’t walk then numbness in my hands finally after spending 4 days in hospital . diagnosed with B12 deficiency ( 90 % ) and they still doing tests . mean time i feel i m crippled cants get up without help cant walk they gave me B12 shots Suppose to take 4 & days then once a month and doctors said its going to take few weeks before healing question is do i have b12 deficiency or something else forgot to mention pain in the back lumbar area.

    • David,
      My I ask how was your health before this recent event? How long ago did this happen?
      Did you ever see my story?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH-N3ktF25g
      It took me over a year before all symptoms reverse.
      For over 7 years I sufferd with ulcerative colitis (almost having my colon removed) with Chronic Fatigue, a Sleep Disorder (Catathrenia), Fibromyalgia, Nerve Damage, Hair Loss, Bleeding Gums, Unexplainable Horrific Uterine Bleed, Chronic Inflation of the Bladder, High blood pressure, nerve damage and was in the process of being tested for MS or possible stroke. Taking 27 pills a day, reacting to a lot of medications.
      I need to still take weekly B12 injections, now “I feel like a million bucks!”

  12. I have a high SED rate because of Lupus, I am told. Also, severe osteoporosis, heavy feeling in legs, joint pain, migraines and blue fingertips, along with red, swollen and painful “bumps” under the skin of my fingers. I’m 98 pounds, eat well, and take no medications, because I suffer adverse side effects from all prescribed meds. Also, shortness of breath, and extreme fatigue. Every physician says my blood tests, with the exception of the ANA and SED, are within normal limits. Could I be suffering from a B-12 deficiency, even though my result was 612 ? Any helpful comments would be gratefully appreciated. Thank you for such an informative, helpful site ! 🙂

    • Hi Jeneva,

      A serum level of 612pg/ml doesn’t preclude having b12 deficiencies. In at least one study in which admission was by symptoms, the average at the start of the study of the people who responded to mb12 was over 700 with the highest persons over 1500pg/ml.

      Some of your symptoms could be caused by b12 deficiencies. Both brain/cord deficiencies can be present regardless of serum level as the CSF is quite separate from the body in this regard.

      B12 deficiencies are also implicated in some autoimmune diseases. With the information given here it is impossible to really know.

      “because I suffer adverse side effects from all prescribed meds.”

      Even this is often characteristic of b12 deficiencies but some of the other things are not. If there is b12 deficiency going on there is also something else likely going on.

      In a study published a few years ago, mb12 was the only supplement that made a difference in a study of elderly women in preventing a second hip fracture. It can also be implicated in inability to gain weight along with some cofactors that could also make a difference, especially if it is an inability to grow muscle. Also severe fatigue can be caused by these deficiencies, such as chronic fatigue syndrome. The problem is that b12 deficiency symptoms are generally non specific and it is the combination and volume that indicates b12 deficiency. A properly done trial can be definitive if the most common missing cofactors are also included. Good luck.

      If you come over to a CFS/FMS forum I post on regularly, sign up and post a private conversation to me with your email address and ask for the Excel questionnaire I will send that in a few days and it will ask you a complete history about more than 400 symptoms, signs, characteristics that will help me see what I think might be going on. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?forums/detox-methylation-b12-glutathione-chelation.6/

  13. Freddd,
    This is extremely helpful. Thank you! I’ll ask my doc for the tests and experiment with your suggestions, warnings included.

    On supplement details:
    I take Jarrow’s Methylfolate (6S)-5-Methyl TetraHydroFolate. Is this an adequate source of folate/substitute for Metafolin?

    I’ve started feeling worse after taking 200-400mg doses of potassium amino acid chelate (increased fatigue, brain fog, breathing difficulty) whereas it used to make me feel much better. This could be unrelated but I’m wondering if potassium can increase the need for some other nutrient that I’m not getting.

    Do you have any suggestions for dose and brand for a B-complex supplement? I’m noticing odd symptoms like a scalloped tongue that may be from other B vitamins getting out of balance. I’m not taking any folic acid or folinic acid.

    Should all glutathione precursors be avoided, including selenium, Vitamin E, turmeric, asparagus, avocado, and garlic?
    Thanks again so much!

    • LisaV,
      Scalloped tongue means you are very hypothyroid and have an enlarged tongue that is pressing on your teeth… leaving dents.

      Until you get your metabolism up to speed with enough Armour you will continue having these hypo symptoms and food reactions because your body isn’t able to fully break down your food… leading to nutritional deficiencies.

      Yes… potassium and magnesium go hand in hand and if you are deficient in one then you are likely deficient in the other. Hypo’s lose lots of magnesium. Try magnesium Glycinate or the new Magnesium L-Threonate.

      Trying to cure deficiencies while hypothyroid is fruitless. If you don’t see the test for Free T3 in your blood work I would get a new doctor asap.

      • Thanks Finndian. Free T3 is coming in the next round of tests. Taking small amounts of Armour (30mg) has my TSH crashing down to 0.7 so taking more Armour may not be the key. I’m trying to get to the underlying reason for my low thyroid function which is why I’m addressing an iodine deficiency and a likely b12 deficiency (I don’t produce HCl so the parietal cells in my stomach also may not be producing the intrinsic factor needed for b12 absorption). Unfortunately waiting to treat the b12 deficiency may be unwise. Likewise I’m testing for iron overload, after finding that my water is high in iron, which would adversely affect the thyroid…as well as other things including gut flora. You could say I’m going for the multi-pronged approach.

        • LisaV, the only time I’ve ever seen someone successfully stop thyroid hormone was with Iodine dosing… but that was only one person and later I found out he committed suicide! Depression from hypothyroidism??

          They can help lead you through iodine dosing here:

          http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/iodine/

          You call it ‘crashing’ when your TSH hits .7 but a doctor at Keck school of medicine at USC (Dr Lopresti) told me years ago that with autoimmune thyroiditis that I wouldn’t feel normal until I had a TSH under 1. I just didn’t know then exactly how far under 1 it needed to be. Even if you only have low thyroid function you need to dose Armour based on how you FEEL until you find out if there is a reversible reason you have it in the first place. Being chronically hypothyroid is killing you slowly.

          Armour thyroid has been used to treat hypothyroidism for 130 years. Until 1972 or so the way it was used is that you increased the dosage by a quarter grain until you felt better. Once the TSH test appeared the doctor felt like he had to tell YOU when you should feel better and if you didn’t feel better than there was something mysterious about you OR you were nutty. Then he prescribed drugs to mask your remaining hypo symptoms.

          So here it is 40 years of drugs to mask what are clearly hypothyroid symptoms because the doctors are over relying on the TSH test. You clearly present HYPO symptoms especially with the scalloped tongue. Almost all your other symptoms are clearly HYPO signs. How many signs does your doctor need for gods sakes?

          You need to find a doctor that does not rely so heavily on TSH and find one that regularly checks FREE T3 and FREE T4… both of which need to be in the upper range of normal. Only then will all your stomach problems disappear, the crashing fatigue from lack of T3 will stop and your blood sugar will normalize.

          Not taking enough Armour often makes you feel worse than not taking any hormone at all. My TSH is something like .004 but my FREE T3 and FREE T4 are well within normal range but on the high end.

          Finally, I have my life back! If I’m supposed to be HYPER with a TSH at .004 then I’d like someone to prove it. I have no tremor, no fast heart rate, no sweating… no excessive calcium in my urine. I’ve checked everything.

          Its ridiculous that I had to suffer for a full decade because some idiotic myth about TSH that never appeared! I haven’t looked this good in so long so I tell myself I didn’t really lose 10 years of my life feeling terrible. Its amazing that I didn’t kill myself listening to certain doctors for so long.

          Long term untreated and under-treated hypothyroidism causes heart problems and host of other health issues… not to mention being hypothyroid causes endless nutritional deficiencies if left unchecked. You’ll be trying to plug holes in the dam while another leak bursts through behind you if you ignore the hypo symptoms and try to address the nutritional side of things first. I tried it for years and spent thousands! The industry that feeds off under-treated thyroid sufferers is massive and shameless. Its full of some well meaning people but more than a few charlatans. Be careful.

          This website was useful to me when I decided to find a doctor to help me dose Armour as it should be dosed and as it was for 90 years before the advent of the TSH test.

          http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

          Good luck!

  14. Could I be making myself worse with b12?

    I started supplementing with sublingual mb12 a week ago after a lot of research led me to believe I might have a B12 deficiency. Unfortunately I didn’t test first so now it may be difficult to really tell what’s going on. Though at the time I honestly thought I might die before I could make it to my doctor’s apt this coming Monday.

    The symptoms that led me to try sublingual mb12:
    Tingling and pain in arms, difficulty breathing (including waking myself up in the middle of the night gasping for air), brain fog and confusion, crushing fatigue, dizzy, sore tongue, burning feet, odd emotionality, pin prick pain.

    I am also hypothyroid (low TSH, T4 and T3) and take Armour, have gut dysbiosis and food allergies that I’ve been treating with the GAPS diet for 2 years, and blood sugar issues (though not to the point of a diagnosis). I’ve been to various doctors in the last 4 years an nobody seems to have any clue what’s wrong with me.

    A week ago I started with a SL mb12 1000mcg under the tongue and noticed a marked improvement especially in the tingling, breathing and brain fog, but crashed pretty hard about 5 hours later. The next day I took another 1000mcg under the tongue every time I started to crash and by yesterday I was taking 30mg (six 5mg SL) spaced throughout the day. A couple of days in I also started taking potassium and folate which are now up to 2000mg potassium and 2400mg folate. I also take a host of other supplements including cod liver oil, mag, C, D3, HCl, digestive enzymes.

    I occasionally experience a few hours of feeling OK but am mostly in a crash – back to former symptom levels or worse. Could I be making myself worse with B12? I am about to start cutting back on the mb12 but wanted to see if anyone here might have suggestions for me. This stuff is pretty scary.

    I’ll go to the doc on Monday and try to convince her to test me for a number of things. If anyone knows a test that would be useful now that I’ve started supplementing with b12 I’d love to hear about it.

    Sorry for the long post. I wanted to offer as much info as possible. Thanks for any help.

    • Hi LisaV,

      Here is a piece I have been revising for 9 years. It’s basically all the reasons that your attempted b12 therapy might not work. People without b12 deficiency sympotms have no response of any kind to any quantity of mb12 or adb12. Brand is critical. All basic vitamins and minerals are essential. So the following have been shown to be the key factors in starting healing or keeping it going. Mb12, adb12, Metafolin, zinc, vit c, vit A, vit D, magnesium, p5p, l-carnitne fumarate, SAM-e. Glutathione/NAC/whey can completely prevent these all from being effective and and make it far far worse.

      Since this was revised last, a lot more has been learned about paradoxical folate deficiency. The approximate metafolin requirements appear to be tied to the degree of paradoxical folate deficiency a person has; 2400-3200mcg ot so for no paradoxical folate deficiency, 6000-8000mcg for folic acid induced paradoxical foalte deficiency and 12mg-30mg for folinic acid/veggie food folate paradoxcical folate deficiency.

      Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..
      IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, neck muscles, Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

      Group 2a – Both
      IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

      Group 2b – Either or both
      Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

      Group 3 – Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency
      IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.

      Group 4 – hydroxcbl or deteriorated mb12, adb12 or cyanocbl
      Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.

      If the increased symptoms are in the groups specifeid in the above you could probably use more Metafolin and/or potassium. The folate insufficincy symptoms and folate deficiency symptoms are the same except for intensity.

      If a person has a gross insufficiency of adb12 and/or l-carnitine fumarate then there won’t be enough ATP for mb12 to anything, it being easily exhausted. If you were to try these two items take adb12 (Source Natural or Dibol Dibencozide), and after a couple of doses, starting with crumbs under the lip and working up, try a very small amount of l-carniitne fumarate (Jarrow or Drs Best). If you have anxiety routinely, and if taking benzos, might have what is often called “tolerance withdrawal”, taking more than 1 mg of L-carnitjne fumarate and may even 200mcg, will be intolerably intense and you will need to start titrating at 100mcg and that can most easily be done with Jarrow liquid carnitine.

      Between the above and the reasons below there is a high probabilty that the casue of your problem is listed. Take the brands listed as 100% serious. They are incomparably better. I take a combination of both every day because they are not identical. Good luck. If you can give more information perhaps I can give you some additional ideas.

      REASONS WHY B12 AND FOLATE THERAPIES DON’T WORK FOR MANY PEOPLE
      Version 2.0 – 03/10/11
      Version 2.1 – 05/08/11
      Version 2.2 – 06/02/12

      1. They take an inactive b12, either cyanob12 or hydroxyb12. The research validating their use was primarily for reducing blood cell size in Pernicious Anemia, keeping the serum b12 level over 300pg/ml at the end of the period between injections. They make a statistically significant effect that can be seen in lab tests in a significant percentage of people compared to placebo. They do not heal most damage done by active b12 deficiencies and have little or no effect on the vast majority of symptoms. They may even block active b12 from receptor sites hindering the effects of real b12. They both cause a keyhole effect of having only a very limited amount (estimated at 10mcg/day) that can actually be bound and converted to active forms. They in no way increase the level of unbound active cobalamins which appear required for most healing. They do nothing beneficial in a substantial percentage of people (20-40%) while giving the illusion that the problem is being treated and if it doesnt work, oh well, thats the accepted therapy. There is no dose proportionate healing with these inactive b12s because it all has to go through this keyhole. Some people are totally incapable of converting these to active forms because they lack the enzyme
      2. They take active b12 as an oral tablet reducing absorbtion to below 1%. A 1000mcg active b12 oral tablet might bind as much as 10mcg of b12. Again the b12 has to be squeezed through a keyhole that limits the amount and is subject to binding problems in the person whether genetic or acquired.
      3. They take a sublingual tablet of active b12 and chew it or slurp it down quickly reducing absorbtion back to that same 1% and limited to binding capacity. With sublingual tablets absorbtion is proportionate to time in contact with tissues. I performed a series of absorbtion tests comparing sublingual absorbtion to injection via hypersensitive response and urine colorimetry.
      4. Of the many brands of sublingual methylb12 only some are very effective. Some are completely ineffective and some have a little effect.
      5. For injectable methylb12, if it is exposed to too much light (very little light actually is too much) it breaks down. Broken down methylb12 is hydroxyb12. It doesnt work at healing brain/cord problems of those who have a presumed low CSF cobalamin level. That requires a flood of unbound methylb12 and adenosylb12 (2 separate deficiencies) that can enter by diffusion. Adenosylb12 from sublinguals can ride along with injected methylb12.
      6. They dont take BOTH active b12s.
      7. They dont take enough active b12s for the purpose.
      8. Lack of methylfolate
      9. Folic acid is taken which can block at least 10 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called “detox” symptoms.
      10. Folinic acid is taken which can block at least 10 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called “detox” symptoms.
      11. Lack of other critical cofactors.
      12. Lack of basic cofactors
      13. Glutathione, glutathione direct precursors or NAC is taken causing what is often called “detox” while actually being induced folate and b12 deficiencies.

    • LisaV, One thing I forgot to mention, if it i being seriously held up by lack of adb12 and/or l-carnitne fumarate, you might test for elevated uMMA. Also, if you have CSF/CNS deficiencies there could be low CSF cobalamin and levated CSF-MMA and/or elevated Hcy. Also if a lack of p5p/b6 then elevated serun Hcy is possible. The blood won’t have changed yet so you can test for MCV > 94, MCH > 35, low platelet count, too many multiusegmented nutriphils, low cellular methylfolate (serum folates is meaningless in your present situation) and if you have paradoxical folate deficiency you may have high serum folic acid and folinic acid and still be very deficient as they block methylfolate in such people.

      If you do have anxiety and deificencies of carrnitine and/or adb12 when these are added in normal amounts you could have MASSIVE limbic system reponses in the form of panic, fear, anger, rage, suden extreme depression and the like.

  15. Can a B12 deficiency cause numbness all over the body? I mean I’m not completely numb but I have a lowered sensation all over my body. I have an anxiety disorder, but I don’t think that has anything to do with it. I also experienced vertigo, it started of with my legs falling asleep, and now the numbness. My mind is telling me that I might have MS, or a brain tumor. I’m very scared. So is it possible that a b12 deficiency could cause this? Or am I doomed. I have hypochondria too, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this. This numbness has been lasting for a few days. Please reply back.

    • Hi Michell,

      With a b12 deficiency and having those symptoms, a person would be pretty far along and lilely have 100+ symptoms is multiple body systems. Ocassionally, some people have a specific type of mb12 and cofactor deficiency which only affects the CNS, brain and cord. While MS may styart out as a neurological only mb12 deficiency, it has demyelinations visible on MRI and is usually 1 sided where-as Sub Acute Combined degeneration usually affects both sides of the body and is also caused by the demyelination from b12 deficiency. There is another area of the brain that may be affected by affecting a differnt part of the brain and also be deficient of adb12 or l-carnitine which causes lots of anxiety and fear. These usually cause people to be hyperresponsive to certain supplements because of the deficiencies. At some point these things stop being deficiencies per se and become damage and the names it is given depend on where the damage is. If it is caused by these deficiencies further damage might be able to be stoppped and some percentage of the damage corrected. It’s hard to say. I haven’t seen this pattern of symptoms before with b12 and cofactor deficiencies. Of course you may not have included a multitude of other symptoms becasue they don’t seem related and those are what makes b12 deficiencies confusing to diagnose for many and also are very defining of it’s existance. This sounds serious and you should have a neurolgical workup with neurologist. If it is one of these neurological situations cuased by a CSF/CNS only b12 deficiency, if it isn’t too advanced (and nobody knows where that line is) the vitamins might be helpful if done correctly witht the exactly correct vitamines, right down to the brands becasue they are no all the same and how they are done sionce if started incorrectly they could cause such intloerable responses as to make it immpossible to continue them Good luck and get checked out quickly. It probably wouldn’t hurt to get started very cautiously on the possibly correct vitamins but I also would not delay seeing a doctor ASAP. Also, if the damage is being casued by some variation of b12 neurological deficiency, each day delay starting the vitamins can increase the amount of permanent damage. I would have to see your answers to a systems quesrtionaire before I could even begin to suggest what vitamins and how.

  16. My B12 levels are at 133 according to a test done last week, which, very fortunately for me, was included as part of a standard blood panel for a basic check-up. I’ve never been tested for B12 before (despite being a non-supplement using vegetarian/vegan for the past 40 years—and yes, I should know better—please don’t rub it in), and probably wouldn’t have thought to ask for the test now, as I’ve experienced few to none of the symptoms described by others on this site. Very healthy and active, no fatigue, other blood markers all good to excellent. The only real symptom, which has appeared fairly recently, is some mild tingling of the extremities.
    Clearly, though, a B12 reading of 133 needs to be addressed. My question concerns the recommended protocol. The treatments suggested here by Freddd and others (very high doses of active B12, active folate, B complex, potassium, omega 3s, and many other co-factors) seem fairly aggressive and directed at people with truly debilitating symptoms. Since that is not my case, would it be more appropriate to begin with a more modest program, and what might that be? Or is it still important to take a quite aggressive approach? I find that often less is more, but perhaps this is not one of those times. Thanks for any suggestions.

    • Matt, First, you mis-represent the active protocol as “high” b12 doses. Often it is appropriate to titrate starting at arounfg 10mcg. Second, that the numbers seem high is first with a sublingual, one absonbs at best a quarter, typically 20% of the nominal dose so irt takes a 5mg nominal dose to supply the approx 1mg absorbed as in an injection. Additionally each person is titrating to effecrtiveness for their problems. I do not advocate some universal dose for all reasons. Thenb it also has to be in balance wioth the other functional items and that is where most trip up. Further the very high dose I take, 30mg injected daily plus 33mg of sublingual for 2 hpours yield approx 11mgs, are demostrated pragmatically needed for hlding my nnerve damage at bay and keep it from wporsenong noticably at a high rate. I am revising the zones of healing with b12 and will post that here in a day or two.

      At your level of 133, you could have several hundred symptoms including brain and spinal cord damage that may or may not yet be apparant. I doubt my level ever went that low. May people will simply die before their body would tolerate that level. To maintain brain and cord funtionality I need an average level of 200,000. People without the brain and cord damage can likely do very well at an average level of perhaps 6000-12,000pg/ml. How much does it take to get to keep a person from ending up in a wheel chair wearing a diaper? Perhpas that is the dose the specific person needs? Unless the person is weilling to accept “oh, they say permanent damage” and on cyanocbl, hydroxcbl or 1mg a month it is permanent damage. The catch is that on 40mg/day it isn’t permanent damage. That is what the Japanese research indicates and my own experience and that of others indicates. Correct your problems before you are that damaged. Right now sublinguals can most likely do the trick if you don’t show a lot of severe damage. A 1000mcg of prevention beats 40,000mcg of cure.

  17. Hi
    I have low B12 and get tingly figgers and feet and fatigue. I wondered if anybody gets hoarseness?
    Also a friend whose B12 is 274(and dr says this is ok) gets tingly lips and tongue and bitter taste in mouth and I wondered if anybody has had this connected to low B12?

    many thanks for any advice

    • I get hoarseness (and canker sores) as a sign of low B12 now. A couple years ago I went to the alternative doctor for my twice a year vitamin IV drip. I have hypothyroidism and just get deficient in random nutrients probably due to impaired stomach acids caused by hypothyroidism; not being able to fully digest foods.

      For the first time ever I asked the doctor for 100,000 mgs of vitamin C to be added to this IV to see it would help with my work-out fatigue. The next day I started to become hoarse and within 3 days I had lost my voice. After a month of doctors, MRI’s and scopes down my throat we finally determined that my vocal cord was paralyzed…. the nerve just quit firing for no reason.

      My research uncovered that there is some evidence that vitamin C in high doses dramatically lowers B12. I didn’t know that but I did know that I was already probably low in B12 because of other testing. I began injecting methylcobalamin shortly after and recovered in a couple months and months of vocal therapy. It normally takes longer to recover from idiopathic vocal cord paralysis. I had other nerve conditions in my upper back for years prior.

      Now, If I don’t keep up with my B12 injections I will randomly get hoarse and my canker sores will make a reappearance. Finding that my low B12 was causing my reoccurring canker sores after a lifetime of them was one of the greatest discoveries of my life… to be free of that type of pain is amazing

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090210092732.htm

      Not sure if its the hypothyroidism causing the need for regular B12 injections or the DNA gene variations I have that predispose me to need extra B12 but I need to keep on top of this for the rest of my life or within 3 months its canker sores and more nerve paralysis for me.

        • One thing I should point out since I actually saw with a camera what my one vocal cord was doing to make my voice hoarse. It was weak and wasn’t fully doing the work that the other one was doing… not meeting it midway. This flabby looking vocal cord vibrated at a slower speed as well. When it progress to full paralysis the whole wall of the throat was limp looking and I tried to make sounds. That side of the vocal cords began to pool saliva and a constant need to clear my throat or drink water was very irritating.

          Google it… you’ll see other forums mentioning the B12/vocal cord link. Like this one.

          “I had a very rough and raspy voice for more than a decade. Before that and now I have a smooth clear first tenor voice. My voice cleared up in mid word when I started taking methylb12. It was caused by a neurological problem caused by vitamin b12 deficiency, along with a lot of other symptoms. Also, the deficiency had made my mucous very thick and sticky with a consistancy like stiff jelly. Only certain brands of sublingual methylb12 work and other cofactors are needed with it to.”

          Since doctors are not trained in nutrition we really need to take these matters into our own hands or suffer the consequences and that often means some drug to mask the symptoms of a simple nutritional deficiency.

          • The constant clearing of the throat sound familiar! I will try some methylb 12 , my doctor here in uk was not keen on this ,but offers up no alternative suggestion.
            Thanks for your input.
            Stay well!

    • Shirley,

      Every symptom you mention for borth people are symtpoms I had with methylb12 and adb12 and methylfolate deficencies and they are all gone and have been for years with the needed items.

  18. Chris, Do you think that those of us with low or no stomach acid production would likely also be deficient in production of intrinsic factor due to the fact that they’re both produced by the parietal cells in the stomach? I haven’t seen these deficiencies talked about in tandem very much. In addition to supplementing with Betaine HLC and B12 for better health do you know of a way to increase the proper functioning of the parietal cells themselves?
    I appreciate your penchant for research and all that you’ve shared.

  19. Fredd,

    Why not Acetyl-L-carnitine instead of L-carnitine fumarate? I have one continuing problem and that is when I work out a lot I get hypothyroid and my T3 levels drop. My cortisol level spike at 4am or so and I although I am totally exhausted I am unable to sleep. I am muscular and healthy but must take over 2 day breaks between workouts to avoid a melt down of hypothyroid symptoms. My system is just strongly reacting to physical stress.

    I’m taking potassium now along with my weekly methylcobalamin injections. Maybe Carnitine will help?

    • Finndian,

      Daily Sublingual Jarrow and/or Enzymartic therepy will work better than 99% of injectable mb12 and work FAR better than weekly mb12 injections. I do inject 30mg of mb12 every day as 3x 10mg subcutaneously which is what keeps my Subacute combined degneration from progressing but the Jarrow and ET are better qualitativly and I take both. What will really pick up your muscles and energy is adenosylb12 (Dibencozide). Dibol 10mg caps are said to be adequate if the powder is used sublingually and Source Naturals Dibencozide 10mg sublinguals are adequate held under the upper lip for an hour it possible. The reason for the L-carnitine fumarate is that it works far better than any other variety and may be blocked by a mix. .A single 10mg dose of dibencozide like that once a week is usually sufficient for matenance for most after an intial dose a day for a week. Mb12 how lasts only a day or two and symptoms begin returning by day 3. In addition, when the brand of carnitine makes a difference it is most always Jarrow or Doctors Best both made of Sigma Tau Carnitine from Germany.

      Don’t try to micromanage your thyroid while these things are starting up. The changes happen faster than you can affect them with thyroid hormone. If a person is in active phase of Hashimotot’s thyroiditis some of these people have had the auto immune disease stop with enough of the right b12s. There is insufficient information to say anthing for sure on that. Hypothyroid affects about 50% of people with low b12 and often low folate or unable to utilize folic acid.

      • Fredd –

        You state that one may experience drops in potassium while beginning methylcobalamin – or while taking high amounts of MB12.

        I do know that potassium may interfere with b12 absorption; however, where is the research citiing that potassium levels drop while taking methylcobalamin – or is it clinically seen?

        I am wondering if the benefit seen by taking potassium is that you are simply reducing the absorption of excessive amounts of MB12 – and the answer then would be to simply reduce the amount of MB12 taken – rather than play with high levels of potassium.

        It is not a small thing for people to be taking 1+ gram of potassium and can be very dangerous. Potassium levels are tightly controlled and if too elevated, may cause serious cardiovascular problems.

        Thanks
        Dr Lynch

        • Benjamin, First I will post the entire decision tree based on observational analysis of some thousands of people over 10 years, the specific parts dealing with “detox”, “detox” when starting methylation programs, “detox” from adding any number of vitamins and supplements to an existing program, “detox” from NAC, “detox” from glutathione and porecursor sets, and “detox” from whey. Then I will describe how it came about and answer your specific questions.

          TRANSLATION OF POPULAR DESCRIPTIVE TERMS TO PRACTICAL CORRECTIONS WITH DECISION TREE – beta
          version 1.2 – 05/28/12

          During “methylation” treatments for FMS, CFS, ME, MS. Cures or long term remissions can occur if the clues are understood and followed. Also suggestive of possible ways to detect impending MS, ALS and Parkinson’s 10-20 years before diagnosis and hopefully prevent.
          There are several popular nutritional treatments and variations for FMS, ME, CFIDS, CFS and several other syndrome names. There is at least one study being conducted for use in MS of exactly the same nutrients because people are having success on them. Many of the same nutritional supplements may be taken in the various programs and by people in general just trying to be healthy.

          Under the banner of “partial methylation block” theory there are a number of programs that center on several forms of cobalamin and of folate with additional vitamins, minerals and supplements. The number and completeness of those other items determine if it is the “full methylation protocol” or “simplified methylation protocol” (SMP). Under the banner of “Functional Deficiency Diseases” which include “active b12 deficiencies (4 deficiencies)” and “induced or paradoxical folate deficiency” there is the “Active b12 and folate protocol” (ABP).

          Whatever names these diseases are called they deal with a universe of symptoms that include up to 400 symptoms and signs, depending upon granularity (ie “peripheral neuropathy” encompasses dozens of possible symptoms and signs). They are in several main categories. They might be grouped as endothelial, epithelial, immune, neurological, blood, and other tissues. Or they might be classified as Skin, GI, lung, heart, veins, arteries, neurological –brain, neurological – cord, neurological – peripheral, neurological – other, neuro-psyc, blood, mood, personality etc.

          WHEN TREATED
          All of these are flags indicating healing is occurring. Minimizing nervous system response reduces or stops healing, especially of the nervous system. Minimizing ATP response prevents normalization of biochemistry.
          1 – Low potassium, almost everybody when healing starts. – often called “detox”
          2 – Low folate symptoms even with small doses of Metafolin – often called “detox”
          3 – Nervous system activation, everything is perceived as more intense – often called “detox”
          4 – ATP activation, everything is more energetic and intense – often called “detox”

          Whatever distinctions are made, a key characteristic is that symptoms, once well developed, of these syndromes will include multiple tissue types, multiple systems. To the casual observer they appear to be not connected. After all what do blood abnormalities, eczema, irritable bowel syndrome, daily nausea and vomiting, severe fatigue, muscle atrophy, asthma, hypersensitive nervous system responses, muscle pains, MCS, mood and personality changes, widespread body pain, peripheral neuropathy, poly neuropathies, burning bladder, poor immune response, FMS, CFS, autoimmune response, raspy voice, unable to focus eyes, faded vision, multi sensory hallucinations and many others have in common? They all share a common set of nutritional deficiency causes. Some will argue that these are not “absolute deficiencies” but rather “functional deficiencies”. For treatment purposes that doesn’t matter unless one is trying to restrict access to treatment (insurance won’t cover)

          The more severely affected a person is the harder hitting the vitamins are when started. There are several initial responses that may occur. In the popular terminology most of them are lumped together under the term “DETOX” reaction or response. These responses may start in minutes to days depending up many circumstances.

          The supplements being considered here are methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin, hydroxycobalamin, cyanocobalamin, folic acid, folinic acid, Metafolin-methylfolate, SAM-e, L-carnitine, glutathione, NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), Cerefolin-NAC, Whey, Metanx, Deplin.
          More rarely Vitamins D – A – C, magnesium, zinc, p5p

          Glutathione, NAC, Cerefolin-NAC, whey are all glutathione or glutathione precursors. The NAC typically overpowers the Cerefolin completely.
          Metafolin, methylfolate, Deplin are all methylfolate
          Metanx is Metafolin, methylb12 and P5P
          B12 forms, in order of effectiveness and likelihood of causing the responses listed here are methylcbl, adenosylcbl, hydroxycbl, cyanocbl

          Typically several of these symptoms will appear suddenly with more appearing and worsening over time if corrections are not made. While these groups of symptoms are called “detox” by some alternative practitioners and many people otherwise knowledgeable about vitamins and supplements, depending upon what theories they are operating under, use this term. Typically they are working on a “toxin” theory of CFS/FMS/ME/MCS etc and that these vitamins and supplements mobilize the toxins which then cause all sorts of symptoms in the groups listed. As the “translations” are made it is clear that actual “detox” if it exists, has nothing to do with these symptoms and they can be dangerous to ignore. If it is “detox” in an actual sense, then it is in what is left after these other things are accounted for and/or corrected, perhaps 5-10% of the total initial number. Also, co-morbidities often show up in this way..

          Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..
          IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, neck muscles, Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

          Group 2a – Both
          IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

          Group 2b – Either or both
          Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

          Group 3 – Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency
          IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.

          Group 4
          Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.

          Group 3 symptoms, induced paradoxical folate deficiency or insufficiency are corrected quickly with titrated doses of Metafolin, methylb12 and adenosylb12. If glutathione (precursors) are the cause then larger doses of Metafolin, 7.5-15mg,or maybe more are needed. Different tissues are affected at different levels of methylfolate, it comes or goes in stages. Very strong dose proportionate characteristics are present. Serum folate levels may be high or even very high despite Metafolin responsive deficiency/insufficiency symptoms.
          Group 1 symptoms respond readily to potassium. The symptoms and response to potassium may occur at a serum level of 4.3 or less.

          IF taking Glutathione, NAC, Cerefolin-NAC, whey, all glutathione or glutathione precursors
          AND often sudden onset of several group 3 symptoms (“Detox”) maybe in a sequence, ie pain and inflammation the first day, cheilitis occurs on day 2-3 and IBS on day 5-6, plus any group 2 symptoms. Symptoms increase for weeks or months and can vary from mild to extreme.
          THEN Induced Paradoxical Folate Deficiency onset. B12 deficiencies follow in a week for methylb12 deficiency symptoms and several weeks for adenosylb12 deficiency symptoms. None of the other supplements can overcome the effects of glutathione or NAC.
          ELSE – all other conditions
          IF injecting b12
          AND itchy bumps and acne type lesions appear mostly on scalp and face but not exclusive
          THEN B12 was hydroxycbl OR photolytically deteriorated methylcbl OR cyanocbl, Lesions can be reversed in days with methylcbl injections not exposed to light at all.

          IF starting or adding methylb12, adenposylb12 or hydroxycbl, AND OR Metafolin (perhaps 80%)
          AND the approximately 3rd day or later onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 1 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Hypokalemia triggered by sudden widespread healing onset. This usually occurs as soon as methylation therapy starts widespread healing process by allowing DNA replications with methylb12 and methylfolate.

          IF adding adenosylcobalamin AND OR L-carnitine fumarate AND OR SAM-e to program (perhaps 50%)
          AND the approximately 3rd day or later onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 1 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Hypokalemia triggered by sudden healing and /or muscle growth. This usually occurs when the person has experienced muscle shrinkage perhaps from decades of inactivity, as soon as these supplements step up mitochondria functioning.

          IF adding or increasing any of Vitamins D, A, E, or C, magnesium, zinc (perhaps 10%)
          AND on the approximately 3rd day or later onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 1 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Deficiency (or Insufficiency). Folinic acid is the primary form found in vegetable source. In some unknown percentage of people who appear unable to convert folinic acid adequately to methylfolate the accumulating unconverted folinic acid can actually block the methylfolate.

          IF starting or increasing folic acid
          AND usually takes a number of days to accumulate to a level leading to onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 3 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Deficiency (or Insufficiency). Folic acid is the most oxidized form of folate that anybody can use. In some unknown percentage of people who appear unable to convert folic acid adequately to methylfolate the accumulating unconverted folic acid can actually block the methylfolate.

          IF starting or increasing folinic acid
          AND usually takes a number of days to accumulate to a level leading to onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 3 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Deficiency (or Insufficiency). Folinic acid is a less oxidized form of folate than folic acid.. In some unknown percentage of people who appear unable to convert folinic acid adequately to methylfolate the accumulating unconverted folinic acid can actually block the methylfolate.

          IF an increase in dietary vegetable folate, “green drinks”, a garden feast
          AND usually takes a number of days to accumulate to a level leading to onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 3 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Deficiency (or Insufficiency). Folinic acid is the primary form found in vegetable source. In some unknown percentage of people who appear unable to convert folinic acid adequately to methylfolate the accumulating unconverted folinic acid can actually block the methylfolate.

          IF starting or increasing folic acid AND OR starting or increasing folinic acid AND OR an increase in dietary vegetable folate
          AND the approximately 3rd day or later onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 1 and/or group2
          AND usually takes a number of days to accumulate to a level leading to onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 3 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Insufficiency AND this can be the onset of Hypokalemia triggered by sudden healing

          IF starting or Methylfolate – Metafolin starting low and titrating
          AND the approximately 3rd day or later onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 1 and/or group2
          AND OR usually takes a number of days to accumulate to a level leading to onset of symptoms (“Detox”) from Group 3 and/or group2
          THEN this can be the onset of Paradoxical Folate Insufficiency, a “donut hole” deficiency. The effects of folate deficiency/insufficiency comes in layers. Several tissue groups can be healing at the same time as other tissue groups are deteriorating. IBS and angular cheilitis can be worsening at the same time as muscles are healing or growing. There is a dose of Metafolin that can start more tissue formation than the same dose can sustain causing a Paradoxical Folate Insufficiency at the same time. In some people at least as they increase Metafolin the need for potassium increases approximately proportionately. The donut hole can be closed with total daily doses of Metafolin of about 15mg for many people.

          TWENTY FIRST CENTURY MYSTERY SYNDROME

          In the early 1940s a Nobel prize was awarded for folic acid. As we know now, folic acid is totally ineffective for 20% of the population due to genetic polymorphisms. Another 30% have very limited effectiveness from folic acid with only partial conversion to methylfolate. Even the 50% with the best conversion has limited amounts converted, an amount insufficient to maintain health for many people. Then, even worse, for some percentage of these people the inactive unconverted folic acid actually blocks methylfolate taken as a supplement from being effective. Again, illumination of this process is aided by the ready availability of Metafolin. So what do you call these people with a folate deficiency because they can’t utilize folic acid or in some cases, folinic acid, the vegetable folate form? Because it is genetic these folks are ill for a lifetime with this paradoxical folate deficiency. At some point they can and do get ill. You say “Paradoxical folate deficiency? What’s that, you never heard of it? Excuse me, you might know it better under the more familiar names of FMS or CFS or maybe MS. Since “folate deficiency” is a known item that has been dealt with by folic acid how can that be? Once again it is, mystery disease time, because the lack of 100% effectiveness of folic acid had been forgotten.

          Since the middle of the last century there has been an explosion of neurological and other disorders including fibromyalgia syndrome, Chronic fatigue syndrome, M.E., Parkinson’s disease, MS, ALS, Alzheimer’s, Autism, SupraNuclearPalsy. The mystery syndrome includes many other potentially named diseases and syndromes. What ties these together? Results of research studies. The specific studies were those that compared cerebral spinal fluid cobalamin levels to blood serum cobalamin levels. Some of them also measured and compared CSF MMA and Hcy to serum HCy and uMMA. In 1948 the Nobel Prize was awarded for a lab mistake, the mis-identification of cyanocobalamin as “B12” instead of the real B12s, methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin.

          For all of the named conditions low CSF cobalamin level was found to be independent of blood serum cobalamin level. Further, for those measuring it, CSF HCY was independent of blood serum HCY and CSF MMA was independent from urine MMA.

          Research on cyanocobalamin and hydroxycobalamin since the 1950s have given the impression that “b12 deficiency” is one thing. Since the late 90s the ready availability of methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin have allowed anybody interested to demonstrate and experience the differences between cyanocbl/hydroxycbl and the two active b12s, methylb12 and adenosylb12. As the official “b12” is cyanocbl the deficiencies are defined in terms of cyanocbl. On an internationally based list of b12 deficiency symptoms expanded for maximum detail added to by what methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin directly affect in humans, the problem becomes readily apparent; cyanocbl has no effectiveness in 1/3 of subjects in just about every study ever done considering only symptoms known to be affected by cyanocbl. Further 2/3 of the total symptoms affected by the two active cobalamins are completely unaffected by cyanocbl and hydroxycbl. Then somehow, physicians and researchers have forgotten about all these symptoms unaffected by cyanocbl/hydroxcbl. They have become “mystery syndromes”.

          A careful observation of the effectiveness of adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin makes it very clear, in combination with the CSF cobalamin level studies that there are 4 distinct b12 deficiency syndromes; CNS-adenosylcobalamin, CNS-methylcobalamin, body-adenosylcobalamin and body-methylcobalamin. In addition there are 4 forms of methylfolate deficiency; folic acid blocked methylfolate paradoxical folate deficiency, folinic acid blocked methylfolate paradoxical folate deficiency (vegetable food source folate included), Methylfolate triggered symptomatic methylfolate partial insufficiency and glutathione/NAC triggered paradoxical folate deficiency.

          These syndromes, FMS and CFS, respond promptly to methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin and methylfolate. For those with anxiety the methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin must be titrated very slowly starting at perhaps 50mcg of sublingual b12 (literally a crumb) of each form on alternating days working up very slowly, below “alarm” level, until full equilibrium is established when no further increase in dose makes a difference. For those without anxiety a 1000mcg sublingual dose is an effective starting point. With the two 5 star effective brands, Jarrow Formulas and Enzymatic Therapy methylcobalamin, maintaining the tablet under the upper lip for 45-120 minutes causes absorption, tested in comparison with injections, in the 15-25% range typically (10-33% extremes). Source Naturals Dibencozide (adenosylcobalamin) 10mg has no folic acid in it and is acceptable in both absorption and effectiveness. About 80% of people starting these active b12 forms with methylfolate will demonstrate the start of healing with epithelial tissue healing and dropping/low potassium symptoms within about 3-4 days. Additional potassium may be needed from 400mg to 2000mg or more daily. I take 1200mg of potassium from potassium chloride as 600mg with each meal and 300-400mg as potassium gluconate tablets twice a day. If a person wakes to middle of the night spasms 500mg of potassium from potassium gluconate with a large glass of water will relieve them within 30 minutes generally. Lasix and other diuretics need to be taken into consideration. Paradoxical folate deficiency can alternate with low potassium. Edema is sometimes related to paradoxical folate deficiency and as the water is excreted the potassium may drop rapidly.

          glutathione and NAC triggered paradoxical folate deficiency
          Glutathione and NAC, both cause the same “detox” reaction with the group 3 symptoms. Hypothetically the glutathione combines with the methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin forming glutathionylcobalamin which then shows up in the urine in profusion in the next few hours. Without the active b12s in the cells the methylfolate is flushed from the cells (“methyl trap”) causing rapid onset of folate deficiency symptoms regardless of serum folate levels or dose of Metafolin. People who claim relief of symptoms from glutathione are reporting an effect. Those people who have anxiety as a symptom respond to both neurological methylcobalamin and methylfolate response and to ATP startup response with adenosylcobalamin as “unbearable” and greatly increasing their anxiety. The glutathione almost immediately relieves and stops methylcobalamin and methylfolate effects and rapidly decreasing adenosylcobalamin ATP effect. Those who have had pronounced healing from methylcobalamin, adenosylcobalamin and methylfolate undergo immediate progressive return of deficiency symptoms, and large body wide increases in pain and inflammation . In six weeks continued usage of the glutathione can cause neurological damage with a noticeable increase in Sub-acute Combined Degeneration damage. Glutathione/NAC “relieves” neurological pain and discomfort by damaging the nerves to the point of numbness by combining with and removing essentially all active circulating mb12 and adb12 from the body starting in minutes..

          Strategy for overcoming paradoxical folate deficiency/insufficiency from vegetable food source folate
          A number of people have found the following method effective, with variations, at overcoming life-long paradoxical folate deficiency/insufficiency from vegetable food source folate.
          Wakeup – 2400mcg Metafolin on empty stomach
          First meal – 4000mcg Metafolin with meal
          Mid-afternoon – 2400mcg Metafolin on empty stomach
          Dinner – 4000mcg Metafolin with meal
          Bedtime – 2400mcg Metafolin on empty stomach
          And NO FOLIC ACID, NO FOLINIC ACID and modest high folate vegetable consumption. Vegetarians will have a problem. So the b-complex must be without any form of folate except methylfolate or Metafolin. Further, no glutathione, no NAC, no whey

        • Benjamin, A few summations also at this point after 10 years of debugging the use of active b12s and folate.

          person 1 – no csf, no fms, no b12 deficiency, no specific responses to nutrients, no healing startup, no b12 deficiency, CFS, FMS symtoms

          less than 2mg daily average sublingual nominal dose of both active b12s, 99mg potassium, 800mcg of metafolin

          person 2 – subset of b12 deficiency, fms, cfs deficiencies. strong “startup responses” with healing startup occurring at 50mcg total absorbed mb12/adb12 and ATP startup with l-carnitine fumarate (100-200mcg). 2700mg potassium, 1600mg metafolin

          person 2 later in titration – 2000mcg sublingual mb12 daily, 2500mcg sublingual adenosylb12 daily, 2700mg potassium, 1600mcg metafolin

          person 3 CFS, FMS, ME, healing startup, ATP startup- more severe symptoms simlar to person 2, 250mcg daily mixed absorbed mb12/adb12, 2400mg potassium, 3200mg metafolin

          person 4 CFS, FMS, healing startup,ATP startup, neurological healing startup, subacute combined degneration, paradoxical folate deficiency- folinc/veggie – 40mg or so absorbed mixed adb12/mb12 – 2200 mg potassium, 15mg of Metafolin

          These 4 people are examples of what kind of ratios are seen. It is clear that healing startup occurs around 50mcg of active b12s and does not require any massive dosing. That applies only to CNS neurological healing.

          Another view into the same data set for all persons experiencing healing and ATP startup

          50mcg mixed active b12s or more, 1600-3000mg of potassium, 1600-3200mcg of Metafolin no paradoxical folate deficiency

          50mcg mixed acive b12s or more, 1600-3000mg of potassium, 6000-8000mcg of Metafolin, paradoxical folate deficiency folic acid caused paradoxical folate deficiency

          50mcg mixed acive b12s or more, 1600-3000mg of potassium, 12mg + of Metafolin, paradoxical folate deficiency folic/folinic/veggie caused paradoxical folate deficiency

          Less Metafolin than people need produces healing AND folate insufficiency symptoms at the same time and may cause low potassium as at same time as low folate.

          How much metafolin a person needs appears to tie directly to the genetic polymorphisms relating to folate usage in the body.

          “I do know that potassium may interfere with b12 absorption; however, where is the research citiing that potassium levels drop while taking methylcobalamin – or is it clinically seen?”

          Potassium in no way affects absorbtion of sublingual or injected b12. The research has never been done as far as I know because of the very biased concentration on cyanocbl and hydroxcbl, the twinkie forms that don’t spoil and don’t produce any troublsom healing generally.. Hypokalemia is “rare” with only cyanob12 or for that matter only any b12. However, you add Metafolin and methylation and generalized healing turn on dropping potassium in 3 days. That happens with hydroxycbl as well. This is a combination effect, needing both tightly interacting cofactors. I was amazed when I started posting at a differnt forum. Half the people were sufferring from indefinite “detox” for years whereas our experience at a different forum was no detox except those coming in from other places. Clearly they were doing something that casued the artifacts of “detox”. There were differences. One of them is that Metafolin had recently become avaialble. They were using mixed folates and we were suggesting pure Metqafolin they were convinced they had to keep Metafolin low to control “detox”, really low potassium and olow methyfolate, sufferring for years in many cases. It was further complicated by so many people inducing severe folate and b12 deficiencies with NAC and glutathione. At the other forum people were recovering from CFS/FMS to the point of being ready to rehabilitate in a year. Working a lot of people through these different problems and combinations lead to the decision tree in the above post. Italso di an N=10 trial of glutathione or precursors with 100% “detox” response” that corrected in days with large doses of Metafolin and mb12 abnd adb12.

          ALL of this entire decision tree is because of how people actually respond, none of it theory. It has very high predictability. It sure does blow out a whole lot of favorite theories of a lot of different people.are working based on. It shows up the “detox” hypothesis to be totally bogus 90+ percent of the time in these specific circumstances. It is NOT going to be popular with certain folks. Only people not dedicated to certain ideas will be able to use this. Others will reject it because it doesn’t fit their theories.

          The next decision tree I’m working on will select those who have a very predictable set of symptoms and a specific hyper response to certain supplements under certain conditions, and identitifes them as probably having the limbic system as the area of damage from the deficiencies in the limbic system neuronal mitochondria, based on the neuropsychological effects in the limbic system.

          When a dose of 500mg of potassium gluconate and 12-16 ounces of water generally alleviates the much of the set of potassium simptoms starting in about 30 minutes or less, and does so repeatedly and predictably until the daily totaql is taken in multiple doses across the day and evening. To avoid screaming muscle spasms in my legs in the middle of the night I take a bertime dose of 300mg of potassium gluconate. I can’t go from dinner to brunch (2 meals a day) without a bedtimne and wakeup dose, if can fall too fast. I do that to keep the total amount to a minuimum rather than take larger doses at my meals to allow for the rapid falloff. About every two weeks I have an attack of low potassium anyway, and take a diuretic which makes me especially vulnerable. In any case as it is repeatable and worked first time, every time, it is predictable when it occurs. People don’t need to be taking it to be effective. They can test it’s effectiveness immediately on symptoms. The potassium if an adequate amount, works quickly. If it is an almost adequate, perhaps 2 hours, if inadequate it might help very little until the next dose. Metafolin works almost as quickly against some of the symptoms and within days for most of them. However, in the case of glutathione indsuce deficiencies or the worst of the paradoxical folate deficiency (folicnic acid and veggie folate) might need as much as the 15 mg dose as in the higher dose of Deplin, to reverse the deficiency all the way. At that time expect a surge of need for potassium.

          This whole thing was tied up into a complicated double deficiency in a feedback loop and just wasn’t recognized becasue the right questions were not asked in research or clinical programs. I can demonstrate this quite reliably. If I were charging you a healthy chunk of change for this advice on how decrease the costs in your HMO and increase patient satisfaction in this segment, I would make my compensation dependent upon agreed performance results. In otherwords, satisfaction guaranteed or you pay proportionately to satisfaction level.

          “It is not a small thing for people to be taking 1+ gram of potassium and can be very dangerous. Potassium levels are tightly controlled and if too elevated, may cause serious cardiovascular problems.”

          And ignored hypokalemia can lead to death. Hypokalemia, in the presence of hypokalemia symptoms because of a specifc set of supplements taken a few days before and responds favorably to potassium is, amazing as it seems, hypokalemia. The only people that usually need to be concerned about potassium, especially within the overall limit of the paleo diet for instance, about 8000mg potassium daily, are those with kidney damage generally. Hypokalemia is some thousands of times more common than hyperkalemia. With a known cause preceding the development of predicted symptoms that are relieved in a predicted way what other choice is there? Let’s get real.

  20. HI DIS IS ARVIND, FROM INDIA, I AM A MALE, AND STARTED MASTURBATED RIGHT FROM 18 DAILY TILL 25, AND AFTER 25 I STARTED FEELING, THAT I AM IN SEVERE VITAMIN AND MINERAL , ESPECIALLY RUNNING DEFICIENCY OF METHYLCOBALAMIN,(VITAMIN B12), AFTER A HUGE MARKET FINDING, IN INDIA , I FOUND A VERY EFFECTIVE METHYLCOBALAMIN TABLET, IN MEDPLUS STORE, A VERY FAMOUS STORE IN INDIA, ESPECIALLY IN SOUTH INDIA,

    THE TABLET NAME IS NEURORITE (METHYLCOBALAMIN 1500MCG), CALRITE (CALCIUM + VITAMIN D) , ALSO OTHER VITAMIN TABLET WHICH COST VERY LOW, BUT QUALITY IS HIGH.

    I TAKE 6000MCG OF METHYLCOBALAMIN, CALRITE DAILY NIGHT BEFORE SLEEP, ALSO POTASSIUM TABLET OF 100MCG MORNING, NOW I AM COMPLETELY WELL, AND STILL CONTINUING ONY INTAKE OF METHYLCOBALAMIN , B.COZ IT IS KEEPING MY BODY WELL, AND MOOD WELL.

    ANY HELP ME NEED MAIL TO ME [email protected]

    • Arvid, it sounds like you think that masturbating has caused you to ejaculate out your vitamins and minerals. If that were the case there would be teenage boys littering the streets here in America looking sick and exhausted.  You might need some liniment for a sore arm but other than that I think you’re okay with masturbating. 

      Rather, I believe your religion in India does not allow you to eat certain animal meat. Are you a vegetarian?

      I was in Bangalore India recently and I noticed quite a few people with very dark rings around their eyes and even the children had very rough hands. I was curious so I did little research and the dark rings could be vitamin B deficiencies and the rough skin could be essential fatty acid deficiency due to a vegetarian diet.

      • Findian, Most of the research on sexual and reproductive matters come out of India. For instance, a typical ejaculation containes as much 200x as much Transcobalamin II as blood per ml. 5ml of semen can contain theoretically as much b12 as 1000ml of blood, perhaps 1-2 mcg.

        The traditional “tantric meal” out of vegetarian cultures contains beef, fish, whole grains and other foods containing adenosylb12, methylb12, methylfolate, omega3 oils, l-carnitine, b-complex, and vitamin a, c, e and minerals. Sounds like a made to order neurological and mitochondria nutrient meal to enahnce extended sexual intercourse and spitritual experience. The lack may have been a mystery to the general population but not to the tantric mystics.

        Masturbation can’t do that since the percentage of TCII occupied by b12 which becomes HTCII (holotranscobalamin II) falls off rapidly with decreasing serum b12 level and can’t take a person into deficiency. So it is indeed typically a lack of b12 input.