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A Silent Epidemic with Serious Consequencesโ€”What You Need to Know about B12 Deficiency

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Reviewed by Chris Masterjohn, PhD

This tired man rubbing his eyes may be experiencing B12 deficiency.
Fatigue is a common symptom of B12 deficiency.

What do all of these chronic diseases have in common?

  • Alzheimerโ€™s, dementia, cognitive decline, and memory loss (collectively referred to as โ€œagingโ€)
  • Multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurological disorders
  • Mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and psychosis
  • Cardiovascular disease
  • Learning or developmental disorders in kids
  • Autism spectrum disorder
  • Autoimmune disease and immune dysregulation
  • Cancer
  • Male and female infertility

Answer: Their signs and symptoms can all be mimicked by a vitamin B12 deficiency.

An Invisible Epidemic

B12 deficiency isnโ€™t a bizarre, mysterious disease. Itโ€™s written about in every medical textbook, and its causes and effects are well-established in the scientific literature.

However, the condition is far more common than most healthcare practitioners and the general public realize. Data from a Tufts University study suggests that 40 percent of people between the ages of 26 and 83 have plasma B12 levels in the low normal rangeโ€”a range at which many experience neurological symptoms. Nine percent had an outright nutrient deficiency, and 16 percent exhibited โ€œnear deficiency.โ€ Most surprising to the researchers was the fact that low B12 levels were as common in younger people as they were in the elderly. (1)

That said, this type of deficiency has been estimated to affect about 40 percent of people over 60 years of age. Itโ€™s entirely possible that at least some of the symptoms we attribute to โ€œnormalโ€ agingโ€”such as memory loss, cognitive decline, and decreased mobilityโ€”are at least in part caused by a deficiency.

Why Is It Underdiagnosed?

B12 deficiency is significantly underdiagnosed for two reasons. First, itโ€™s not routinely tested by most physicians. Second, the low end of the laboratory reference range is too low.

This is why most studies underestimate true levels of deficiency. Many deficient people have so-called โ€œnormalโ€ levels of B12.

Yet, it is well-established in the scientific literature that people with B12 levels between 200 pg/mL and 350 pg/mLโ€”levels considered โ€œnormalโ€ in the U.S.โ€”have clear vitamin deficiency symptoms. (2) Experts who specialize in the diagnosis and treatment of a deficiency, like Sally Pacholok, R.N., and Jeffrey Stuart, D.O., suggest treating all patients that are symptomatic and have B12 levels less than 450 pg/mL. (3) They also recommend treating patients who show normal B12 levels but also have elevated urinary methylmalonic acid (MMA), homocysteine, or holotranscobalamin, which are other markers of a deficiency in vitamin B12.

B12 deficiency can mimic the signs of Alzheimerโ€™s, dementia, multiple sclerosis, and several mental illnesses. Find out what this vitamin does and learn how to treat a deficiency. #B12 #B12deficiency #cognitivedecline

In Japan and Europe, the lower limit for B12 is between 500 and 550 pg/mL. Those levels are associated with psychological and behavioral symptoms, such as:

  • Cognitive decline
  • Dementia
  • Memory loss (4)

Some experts have speculated that the acceptance of higher levels as normal in Japan and the willingness to treat levels considered โ€œnormalโ€ in the U.S. explain the low rates of Alzheimerโ€™s and dementia in that country.

What Is Vitamin B12 and Why Do You Need It?

Vitamin B12 works together with folate in the synthesis of DNA and red blood cells. Itโ€™s also involved in the production of the myelin sheath around the nerves and the conduction of nerve impulses. You can think of the brain and the nervous system as a big tangle of wires. Myelin is the insulation that protects those wires and helps them to conduct messages.

Severe B12 deficiency in conditions like pernicious anemia (an autoimmune condition where the body destroys intrinsic factor, a protein necessary for the absorption of the vitamin) used to be fatal until scientists figured out death could be prevented by feeding patients raw liver, which contains high amounts of B12. But anemia is the final stage of a deficiency. Long before anemia sets in, deficient patients will experience several other problems, including fatigue, lethargy, weakness, memory loss, and neurological and psychiatric problems.

The Stages of a Deficiency

B12 deficiency occurs in four stages, beginning with declining blood levels of the vitamin (stage I), progressing to low cellular concentrations of the vitamin (stage II), an increased blood level of homocysteine and a decreased rate of DNA synthesis (stage III), and finally, macrocytic anemia (stage IV). (5)

Common B12 Deficiency Symptoms

The signs can look like the symptoms of several other serious disorders, and the neurological effects of low B12 can be especially troubling.

Here are some of the most common vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms:

  • Tingling or numbness in the hands and feet
  • Brain fog, confusion, and memory problems
  • Depression
  • Premature aging
  • Cognitive decline
  • Anemia
  • Weakness
  • Fatigue
  • Reduced appetite and weight loss
  • Constipation
  • Trouble balancing (6)

Children can also show symptoms, including developmental issues and learning disabilities if their B12 levels are too low.

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Why Is It So Common?

The absorption of B12 is complex and involves several stepsโ€”any of which can go wrong. Any of the following can cause B12 malabsorption:

  • Intestinal dysbiosis
  • Leaky gut and gut inflammation
  • Atrophic gastritis or hypochlorhydria, or low stomach acid
  • Pernicious anemia
  • Medications, especially proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) and other acid-suppressing drugs
  • Alcohol
  • Exposure to nitrous oxide, during either surgery or recreational use

This explains why a deficiency can occur even in people eating large amounts of B12-containing animal products. In fact, many of my patients that are B12 deficient are following a Paleo diet where they eat meat two or three times daily.

Who Is at Risk for a Deficiency?

In general, the following groups are at greatest risk for a deficiency:

  • Vegetarians and vegans
  • People aged 60 or over
  • People who regularly use PPIs or acid-suppressing drugs
  • People on diabetes drugs like metformin
  • People with Crohnโ€™s disease, ulcerative colitis, celiac, or IBS
  • Women with a history of infertility and miscarriage

Note to Vegetarians and Vegans: B12 Is Found Only in Animal Products

You cannot get B12 from plant-based sources. This vitamin is only found in animal products. Thatโ€™s why vegetarians and vegans need to know the signs of deficiencyโ€”and the steps necessary to fix the problem.

B12 is the only vitamin that contains a trace element (cobalt), which is why itโ€™s called cobalamin. Cobalamin is produced in the gut of animals. Itโ€™s the only vitamin we canโ€™t obtain from plants or sunlight. Plants donโ€™t need B12, so they donโ€™t store it.

A common myth among vegetarians and vegans is that itโ€™s possible to get B12 from plant sources like:

  • Fermented soy
  • Spirulina
  • Brewers yeast

However, plant foods said to contain B12 actually contain B12 analogs called cobamides that block the intake of and increase the need for true B12. (7) That explains why studies consistently demonstrate that up to 50 percent of long-term vegetarians and 80 percent of vegans are deficient in B12. (8, 9)

Seaweed is another commonly cited plant source of B12, but this idea is controversial. Research indicates that there may be important differences in dried versus raw purple nori; namely, raw nori may be a good source of B12, while dried nori may not be. One study indicated that the drying process used for seaweed creates B12 analogs, making it a poor source of the vitamin, while animal research suggests that dried nori can correct a B12 deficiency. (10, 11) Seaweed may provide B12, but it’s not clear if those benefits are negated when that seaweed is dried. I recommend caution for that reason.

The Impact of a Deficiency on Children

The effects of B12 deficiency on kids are especially alarming. Studies have shown that kids raised until age six on a vegan diet are still B12 deficient even years after they start eating at least some animal products. In one study, the researchers found an association between a childโ€™s B12 status and their performance on testing measuring:

  • Spatial ability
  • Fluid intelligence
  • Short-term memory

Researchers found that formerly vegan children scored lower than their omnivorous counterparts in each area. (12)

The deficit in fluid intelligence is particularly troubling, the researchers said, because this area impacts a childโ€™s ability to reason, work through complex problems, learn, and engage in abstract thinking. Defects in any of these areas could have long-term consequences for kids.

I recognize that there are many reasons why people choose to eat the way they do, and I respect peopleโ€™s right to make their own choices. I also know that, like all parents, vegetarians and vegans want the best for their children. This is why itโ€™s absolutely crucial for those that abstain from animal products to understand that there are no plant sources of B12 and that all vegans and most vegetarians should supplement with B12.

This is especially important for vegetarian or vegan children or pregnant women, whose need for B12 is even greater. If youโ€™re not willing to take a dietary supplement, it may be time to think twice about your vegetarian or vegan diet.

How to Treat a Deficiency

One of the greatest tragedies of the B12 epidemic is that diagnosis and treatment are relatively easy and cheapโ€”especially when compared to the treatment patients will need if theyโ€™re in a late stage of deficiency. A B12 test can be performed by any laboratory, and it should be covered by insurance. If you donโ€™t have insurance, you can order it yourself from a lab like DirectLabs.com.

As always, adequate treatment depends on the underlying mechanism causing the problem. People with pernicious anemia or inflammatory gut disorders like Crohnโ€™s disease are likely to have impaired absorption for their entire lives and will likely require B12 injections or high-dose oral cobalamin indefinitely. This may also be true for those with a severe deficiency thatโ€™s causing neurological symptoms.

Typically in the past, most B12 experts recommended injections over high-dose oral cobalamin for people with pernicious anemia and an advanced deficiency involving neurological symptoms. However, recent studies have suggested that high-dose oral or nasal administration may be as effective as injections for those with B12 malabsorption problems. (13, 14)

Try Supplementing

Cyanocobalamin is the most frequently used form of B12 supplementation in the U.S. But recent evidence suggests that hydroxocobalamin (frequently used in Europe) is superior to cyanocobalamin, and methylcobalamin may be superior to bothโ€”especially for neurological disease.

Japanese studies indicate that methylcobalamin is even more effective in treating neurological symptoms and that it may be better absorbed because it bypasses several potential problems in the B12 absorption cycle. (15, 16) On top of that, methylcobalamin provides the body with methyl groups that play a role in various biological processes important to overall health.

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Change Your Diet

Nourishing your body through whole food is the best way to get the vitamins and nutrients you need. If youโ€™re low on B12, try eating some vitamin-rich foods like:

Eating other kinds of seafood, like octopus, fish eggs, lobster, and crab, can also help you attain normal B12 levels. If youโ€™re seafood-averse, you can also get this vitamin from:

  • Lamb
  • Beef
  • Eggs
  • Cheese

Itโ€™s important to note, though, that the amount of B12 in these foods is nowhere near as high as the levels in shellfish and organ meats.

What to Do if You’re Experiencing Vitamin B12 Deficiency Symptoms

If you suspect you have a deficiency, the first step is to get tested. You need an accurate baseline to work from.

If you are B12 deficient, the next step is to identify the mechanism causing the deficiency. Youโ€™ll probably need help from a medical practitioner for this part. Once the mechanism is identified, the appropriate form (injection, oral, sublingual, or nasal) of supplementation, the dose, and the length of treatment can be selected.

So, next time you or someone you know is โ€œhaving a senior moment,โ€ remember: It might not be โ€œjust aging.โ€ It could be B12 deficiency.

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This website contains affiliate links, which means Chris may receive a percentage of any product or service you purchase using the links in the articles or advertisements. You will pay the same price for all products and services, and your purchase helps support Chrisโ€˜s ongoing research and work. Thanks for your support!

1,962 Comments

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  1. it has been very informative reading all these comments.. i would like to know if anyone can suggest something to do if the b12 level is low 79 and there is an allergy to b12 (cobolt)… i once had a b12 shot and had such a bad allergic reaction. i knew i was allergic but needed some relief from the symptoms. thanks.

  2. Hi to all, I don’t know if you know anyone with dementia or Alzheimer’s disease, but you probably know of the association between low VB12 levels and dementia and AD. I thought that you might be interested in this study:
    Ikeda T,Yamamoto K,Takahashi K,Kaku Y,Uchiyama M,Sugiyama K,Yamada M. Treatment of Alzheimer-type dementia with intravenous mecobalamin. Clin Ther. 1992 May-Jun;14(3):426-37.

    The efficacy of intravenous mecobalamin in the treatment of Alzheimer-type dementia was evaluated in ten patients using several rating scales. Vitamin B12 levels and unsaturated binding capacities were also measured and compared to the evaluated intellectual function scores. Mecobalamin was shown to improve intellectual functions, such as memory, emotional functions, and communication with other people. Improvements in cognitive functions were relatively constant when the vitamin B12 levels in the cerebrospinal fluid were high. Improvements in communication functions were seen when a certain level of vitamin B12 was maintained for a longer period. There were no side effects attributable to mecobalamin. We conclude that mecobalamin is a safe and effective treatment for psychiatric disorders in patients with Alzheimer-type dementia

    You must note that they needed to give high doses repeatedly over time, so you would need either injections or the topical material

    • This study is quite old: Has there been follow up? I have been thinking my mother, age 90, who gets B12 shots once a month, should have them more often. If I were armed with more recent studies, I could present them to her doc. She is just getting some dementia. My mother in law has advanced alzheimer’s and is in a memory care unit, and I’d love to present her doctor with some studies also, if they confirm the results of this one from 22 years ago. Thank you!

  3. Hi to all,
    Just thought you might be interested in a new study on vitamin B12 levels in mothers and babies following the birth of the new-born. Cobalamin and haptocorrin in human milk and cobalamin-related
    variables in mother and child: a 9-mo longitudinal study1โ€“3
    Eva Greibe, Dorte L Lildballe, Suยดsanna Streym, Peter Vestergaard, Lars Rejnmark, Leif Mosekilde, and Ebba Nexo.
    Basically it shows that during the breast feeding period both the mother and babies Cbl levels drop quite dramatically. This follows another study by the same group, in which they showed a big drop in Cbl levels in the mother during pregnancy. Now somehow Eva Greibe’s group of mothers were all what I would call sufficient in Cbl. The situation is much worse in those that have sub-clinical deficiency. Whilst the study is yet to be done, it is quite possible that post-natal depression can be due to this big drop in Cbl levels in the mums. For some reason that escapes me, generally post-natally depressed mums are not tested. Just thought the group would be interested.

  4. What I have not seen mentioned is the condition of MTHFR acronym for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase , which may be the actual root cause for the B12 deficiencies. This is a genetic condition that is rather common (some stats show upwards of 30% of the population), which causes breakdowns in the pathways that allow for adequate absorption of many of the B vitamins.. mainly folic acid and B12. B6 is also affected. There is a saying that MTHFR is not a problem until it is a big problem and many people and doctors have never heard of it. The Big problems usually represent via blood clots, fetal death and thrombosis. It is very important that people with MTHFR take the active form of vitamins including methyll forms of folic acid and B12. It is important to know the root cause as this is a genetic condition that can have life altering problems with a very easy fix (i.e. regulating folic intake and B12 intake.) Women, this is very important if you are of child bearing age and are thinking about getting pregnant. You must be on a methylfolate for more than 3 months at very high does (usually given via a prescription). I found out the hard way loosing two children that I have this condition, which is heartbreaking but a gift to the rest of my family who all have been tested. Such an easy fix and so tragic that it is on so few doctor’s radar screens. People suffering from anxiety, depression, joint and nerve pain and a multitude of other issues could in fact have MTHFR as a root cause.

    • Its been mentioned several times here however another time for the new readers never hurts. My big sign of low B12 is hoarse sounding voice and CANKER SORES. Several studies show that B12 helps clear up recurrent canker sores.

      I suffered all my life with horrible cankers… found I had the MTHFR polymorphism, cured the deficiency with the methyl forms of both B12 and folate and POOF… gone. Haven’t had one canker sore in 8 years.

  5. Do you know where I can find hydroxycobalamin B12? I cannot tolerate methylB12, am on GAPS and now expecting – so I don’t want a huge dose either. Any ideas? Thanks!

  6. Rose,

    Greg’s company is in Australia, so shipping from there should be feasible for you. Just waiting for the announcement of his website.

      • Hi to all,
        Just to let you know that the mixed Ado/MeCb topical oil product is now being sold by TransdermOil.
        Link is http://www.transdermoil.com The product is in a light protected pump bottle and delivers ~2.5 mg/dose. It must be rubbed in well into warm dry skin to work and if done so properly should “vanish” into the skin. BE aware, the product is VERY RED. Ratio of Ado:MeCbl is 3:1, which is roughly the ratio in the body.

  7. Rose,
    I too have a problem with sublingual mB12. The sublinguals use citric acid because acid is needed for absorption of the B12. I have thin enamel and find that the citric acid is etching my teeth.

    I don’t know how effective the patches are. However, as Greg mentioned, there soon will be another application choice for getting methylcobalamin. It is the topical oil his company has developed and that will be on the market very soon. I have been using his adenosylcobalamin topical oil for the last couple months, and they now have a methylcobalamin/adenosylcobalamin product as well. I think now they’re just waiting to get the website up and marketing details finalized before the products are available to the public. The topical oil comes in a spray bottle that keeps it well protected from light and makes it easy to apply.

    I am eagerly awaiting for that product to become available so I can give my teeth a break.

    • Amber….Thanks for the info. I’ll look on iHerb.

      Lynn_M….The oil sounds like a good way of getting B12 but I live in NZ so don’t know if it will be available here or shipped this far. Will just have to wait and see.

      Thanks for the info, both of you!

      ๐Ÿ™‚

  8. Can anybody tell me if the B12 patch is as effective as sublingual methylcobalamin. I am in a difficult situation as the formula of the sublingual B12 drops I have been taking has been changed and now contains citric acid as a preservative. I realize that not much of this gets into the system, but enough to irritate the living daylights out of my pancreas. The B12 box of patches available has only 8 patches which says it’s a 1 to 2 months supply of methylcobalamin. Would that be enough, or at least be better than nothing? Cost is a major for me. There are sublingual tablets but they all contain additives that I can’t tolerate either so at this stage the patches seem my only option. My doctor still refuses to believe that I have a B12 problem, even though my tongue burns and my RBC is borderline…still.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thank-you

    • I don’t know about the patches, but the methylcobalamin I use has only cellulose as an additive. It’s Doctors Best Fully Active B12, and the price is really cheap on iherb. It comes as a powder in a capsule. I empty the capsule between my lip and lower teeth, and treat it like a sublingual. It’s been working great for me.

      • Amber…..How can you tell this product is working for you? I’m not sure it would absorb if it’s a powder. Do you have symptoms that go away taking this product, or do you have blood tests that show your levels are rising?

        Thanks

    • Hi Joe,
      You are quick to find the patch, but I am not sure it will deliver as much material as you need. There is a topical oil, which is just about to be released onto the market. It will deliver a much higher dose of VB12 and contains both Ado and MeCbl. I will post the link when it is out. The trial product has been used by a few people in the discussion as well as many others who are not on the post. It appears to work very well.
      If you have further questions you can contact me directly [email protected] .
      Hopefully we can help you. Thanks for the link on the patch.
      Cheers,
      Greg

      • Greg,

        Just got the results of my recent lab tests. My “Methylmalonic Acid, Serum” is 120.

        Joe

  9. I have Transcobalamin Deficiency. So, not matter how much B12 I take, I can never absorb enough to survive. My Mom died from this, and my siblings and other family members have the same thing. Isn’t there some way to get the transcobalamin that we need? Injections? Transfusions?

    • Hi Joe,.
      You certainly have a curious condition. They have cloned TCII and determined the crystal structure, but I don’t think it is made under GMP conditions for injection or transdermal delivery. Theoretically there may be a work around the condition which doesn’t involve VB12.
      Firstly, you technically need both Ado and MeCbl. Now the AdoCbl is mainly needed for energy production, but only for some carbon sources, which mainly are odd chain fatty acids, and some of the amino acids. You don’t need it for metabolism of sugar for energy, most fats, and many amino acids. This would mean if you were to seriously control your diet you could work around it to a certain extent.
      Secondly, you need methylcobalamin for methyl-transfer reactions to load up S-adenosylmethione (SAM) from 5MTHF, and to cycle it back to THF (tetrahydrofolate). Now if you keep taking folate, but NOT 5MTHF, you should still be able to do the DNA synthesis, you will gradually accumulate 5MTHF, which will increase in serum and then be excreted. So your problem now is making SAM. Have you considered getting shots of SAM? You would then be able to use SAM for all the other processes that you need it for, and if you take high enough levels of vitamin 6, you should be able to keep your homocysteine levels down and your glutathione levels up.
      I don’t know of anyone who has tried this, but maybe there is someone “listening” to our conversation that may have.

      • Hi Greg,

        Thank you so much, for the information. I am taking Cerefolin NAC, B-100 (2 tablets), Cyancobalamin Liquid (1500mcg), and Acetyl-L Carnitine, D3 (2000iu), Androgel, and Digestive Enzymes. My digestion is a farce. Every time I eat, I retain large amounts of fluid. Fats and proteins make it worse. My legs burn so bad, and eating always makes the burning worse. The Cerefolin NAC has helped my anxiety, some. My cognitive function is declining, and my doctor said that he is concerned about my mitochondria. My homocysteine levels are high and rising. I just started the Acetyl-L Carnitine, and it has helped with my leg pain at night (a little, but still enough to tell the difference). So, I just need to get that balance of supplements and diet that minimize my symptoms and keep my illness from progressing so quickly. Any suggestions, based on this info? I am desperate to try anything.

        • Joe, if you risk dying of B12 deficiency ultimately, why are you taking only 1500 mcg cyancobalamin? Is there a reason for the low dose and the inferior type? I don’t have your condition and I take 5000mcg of more easily absorbed methylcobalamin.

          Is your doctor not treating this condition aggressively? Is he using methylcobalamin for the injections? How much and how often?

          • I forgot to mention that I am doing 1000mcg injections of cyancobalamin, every other week. The Cerefolin NAC contains L-methylfolate 5.6mg, Methylcobalamin 2mg, and N-acetylcysteine 600mg, So, I’m taking 3500mcg per day (not including the bi-weekly shots). Of course, it doesn’t matter how much I take, because my body lacks enough protein (transcobalamin) to transport the B12. I am always hopeful that a solution will come along,

            • Hi Joe,
              Thanks for the information, it helps to sort out what is going on.
              Regarding the bioavailability of various oral supplements, there is no conclusive evidence that MeCbl is taken up any better than Ado or CNCbl, and in fact 5 mg dose of MeCbl is around 1000 times the uptake capacity for VB12, so it is in vast excess. One could argue though that you would need AdoCbl as well as MeCbl. If you are MeCbl deficient, I don’t why anyone would prescribe 5-methylfolate instead of folate. 5-methylfolate is at the end of the folate cycle and builds up as an end product. It can’t go anywhere without MeCbl and so is not a useful analogue if you are MeCbl deficient. It cannot be converted back to Tetrahydrofolate without MeCbl, which you don’t have.
              It is curious about your increasing homocysteine levels as it would appear that you have enough/excess methionine for your needs and that you must be making SAM. Without MeCbl you can theoretically “move” Hcy to Cystathione, then cysteine with excess vitamin B6, which you may not be absorbing. I cannot follow the logic in taking N-acetylcysteine, as it will stop Hcy consumption/removal. i would be interested in hearing the logic if anyone has it.
              As for the mitochrondria, carnitine normally is formed from breakdown/conversion of trimethyllysine, and is used in fat metabolism to form energy from fat breakdown. If you don’t take your calories as fat you don’t need it. Thus you don’t need it for entering the Kreb’s cycle if you use sugars or amino acids as energy sources.
              As for loading your cells with VB12 (of either type) without the transporter, here you need to get the circulating concentration so high that it is non-specifically taken up from the circulation. This is sort of the theory behind the extra high dose oral supplementation idea. I don’t see that this is technically going to be possible from oral supplementation. The maximum absorbed dose is around 1% of that adminsitered (unless you have a transporter), so even a 5000 ug dose will only get 50 ug in. As this will not be on a VB12 transporter this will be lost so quickly from the circulation that it will barely have an effect. So yes injections or topical B12 are the way to go. These give a much higher bioavailability and so enhance your chances of uptake. The topical route will provide longer release with time, whilst the injectable route will give you a higher peak, but drop off very rapidly.
              I hope this is helpful.
              Cheers.

              • Wouldn’t his doc prescribe 5-methylfolate if he has the MTHFR genetic defect which prevents one from converting folate to 5-methylfolate?

                • Hi Mary,
                  An interesting thought, and yes it depends upon what the deficiency/defect is.
                  Thus, if you have the MTHFR genetic defect, you cannot convert 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate (CH2-THF) to 5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate (CH3-THF, MTHF)., and hence your folate can’t cycle around and so you effectively cannot re-use folate. So if you give folate or MTHF, it should not make much of a difference, IF you have enough VB12. If you don’t have enough VB12, then you can’t now convert MTHF to THF, and so the 5MTHF would be wasted and would just appear as higher folate levels in serum, and you would still effectively be folate deficient inside the cell, although your serum levels would say you are not deficient.
                  Now if we look at the VB12 side of what is going on. In the conversion of MTHF to THF, hydroxocobalamin (OH-Cbl) accepts the methyl group from the MTHF and is converted to Methylvitamin B12 (MeCbl, methylcobalamin). So theoretically you would give OH-Cbl plus MTHF. In this scenario 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate (CH2-THF) could build up in the cell due to the mutation, except that thymidilate synthase converts it back to Dihydrofolate, and the folate cycle commences again..
                  Now if we look at the homocysteine to methionine conversion, here the homocysteine is converted to methionine by the addition of the methylgroup from MeCbl, which becomes OH-Cbl. In this scenario you could just give folate plus methylcobalamin. (In a nomral person the OH-Cbl would be converted back to MeCbl by the process described above).Now all of these reactions are subject to “feed-back” control, and it is hard to determine what effect a build up of any of the reaction products will have, which is why there is such a huge variation in effect depending upon how much VB12, folate and methionine is in the diet. It gets even more complicated when one looks at what the effect of increased vitamin B6 has on homocysteine removal, or the effect that thyroxin and vitamin B2 have on the folate cycle. So it gives you an idea about why your doctors might not be up to speed on the deficiency, there is quite a lot of biochemistry and organic chemistry that is involved, and they don’t actually study this.

  10. I just got tested and it shows 522 pg/ml. Even being in the normal range, I still want to supplement. Are there any consequences for that? I have mild symptoms like fatigue, and I am a vegetarian, almost vegan for 10 years. Thanks!

    • Hi Karine,
      If you still have mild symptoms, I would still keep supplementing, particularly when you consider the long term consequences of being even mildly low (see discussion above). It is hard to tell without seeing the composition of your vegan diet, but you could also be marginally low in iron, zinc and calcium. Both zinc and iron are needed for energy, and calcium obviously for your bones. You could also be low in the other B group vitamins, but normally if you are on a good “grain” diet you can make up for it. As for the 522 pg/ml, remember that is only a serum measurement. Several studies have shown that serum levels, particularly after high dose supplementation do not reflect in increased tissue levels of VB12. Hence, if you were low (gradually decreasing over 10 years of vegan diet) you may need to supplement for at least that long.

      • Hi I have just seen my doctor to see if she would consider prescribing me more B12 injections as I am still very tired. She said that the fatigue is probably due to the folate deficiency, and that once those levels are up I would feel better.
        Gregg, I repeated the advice you gave me to her, and she was not interested and simply said that if I was not happy with her diagnosis I was free to go to another doctor! I live in Ireland and my family and I have been going to this practice for 40 years so it would be very difficult to go elsewhere.

        She has asked me to continue taking the folic acid for 12 weeks and then I will have another blood test. She assures me that I should see a change in my energy levels soon.

        My last blood test two weeks ago, after 5 B12 shots was;
        B12 757 range 189-1162
        Folic acid 2.6 range 2.7 – 20
        Potassium4.4 range 3.5 – 5.0
        Urea 3.5 range 2.5-6.7
        WBC 4.3 range 4 – 11
        RBC 4.2 range 3.8 – 5.2
        Haemoglobin 13.4 range 11.5 – 16.5
        haematocrit 0.39 range 0.37 – 0.47
        MCV 92.6 range 80 – 100
        MCH 32 range 27 – 32
        MCHC 34.4 range 32 – 37
        Platelets 195 range 150 – 400
        Neut 2.01 range 2.0 – 7.5
        lymph 1.98 range 1 – 3.5
        Monocytes 0.24 range 0.2 – 1.0
        Eosinophils 0.08 range 0.04 – 0.5
        Basophils 0.02 range 0 – 0.2

        Sorry for the long post. What changes do you think I should see in my next blood test if I continue to take the folic acid and no B12 shots.
        Also, how long can you be B12 deficient before you see a decline in your health?

        Thank you for any replies it is much appreciated.

        Cynthia

        • Hi Cynthia,
          Your questions certainly have prompted me to do a fair bit of literature searching, through which I may have come up with a potential answer. Your bloods look pretty good except that now your folate level is a bit low, which may be due to increased intracellular use. Also your MCH is a little high in other types of anaemia where the red blood cells are enlarged (for example, as a result of folic acid or vitamin B12 deficiency).
          Now there is a very common problem, particularly in women, which mimics the symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency, and that is hypothyroidism, which is also curiously associated with vitamin B12 deficiency and anemia. In fact there appears to be an abnormally high percentage of people who are VB12 deficient who have hypothyroidism. The symptoms of hypothyroidism are as follows:
          โ€ข Fatigue
          โ€ข Weakness
          โ€ข Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
          โ€ข Coarse, dry hair
          โ€ข Dry, rough pale skin
          โ€ข Hair loss
          โ€ข Cold intolerance (you can’t tolerate cold temperatures like those around you)
          โ€ข Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
          โ€ข Constipation
          โ€ข Depression
          โ€ข Irritability
          โ€ข Memory loss
          โ€ข Abnormal menstrual cycles
          โ€ข Decreased libido
          You will see that many of them are similar to VB12 deficiency, which may correlate with the co-incidental hypothyroidism/vitamin B12 deficiency. So I would go and get your TSH levels checked and your T4 and T3 levels.
          Thus if you now have hypothyroidism, and you have supplemented with VB12, you can’t actually use it effectively as you don’t have normal T4/T3.
          If you want references for your doctor, contact me and I will send them on.
          Best wishes,
          Greg

        • Hi Cynthia…..Pardon me for butting in here, but were you aware that the Irish are particularly prone to gluten intolerance which leads to thyroid deficiency and B12 malabsorption plus about 300 other medical conditions? I just happen to know all this because I am of Irish decent and have a myrial of problems due to the late discovery that I am gluten intolerant. There are no obvious symptoms of gluten intolerance except that it presents iyself as a million other symptoms and conditions. For me in was chronic fatigue that finally brought about the discovery that gluten was the problem. After 2 days on a GF diet, the chronic fatigue had gone completely.

          One other thing is that doctors by and large will say that a TSH level of up to 4 or 5 is ‘normal’ when in fact it isn’t. In USA in particular it is widely considered that 2.5 should be the top level of normal.

          The Celiac Disease Center of the University of Chicago states that there are over 300 symptons and conditions linked to gluten intolerance.

          Cheers

          • Hi Rose, thanks for the input. I will read up on Gluten Intolerance and hypothyroidism. Unfortunately I don’t know much about either and my brain fog and concentration is so poor at the moment I am finding it difficult to take anything in!
            My last TSH result from my blood test 3 months ago was; TSH 1.15 range 0.05 – 4.94 and my glucose level was 4.8 range 3.9 – 5.8.

            Since starting my folic acid I have been feeling terrible. At night when i’m resting or in my bed I am getting terrible palpitations and twitches in my neck and an ache in my left back shoulder. Now maybe I just pulled a muscle and that’s why i’m getting the twitch I’m not sure. The palpitations are keeping me awake so I am extra fatigued. Also, the lump feeling in my throat is consistently there. I don’t have trouble swallowing food but it is difficult to swallow my saliva and it feels like im being choked. I’ve made an appointment to see a different doctor next week.

            Thanks all,
            Cynthia

  11. Hi this is a very informative site, unfortunately I haven’t had time to read all of it.
    My blood test last march showed a B12 level of 200. I was and still am very fatigued, but not may other symptoms. I get restless legs and burning feet when i’m trying to get to sleep, am cold most of the time and slight palpitations but if I hadn’t read about B12 deficiency I would have paid much attention to all this. I got 5 B12 injections, (don’t know how much or what they were called), one each week for 5 weeks. They took my bloods again a month later and the Doctor rang a couple of days ago and asked me to come in tomorrow as she said my Folate level is now too low. It was at 8.7 in March and now its at 2.2. I forgot to ask what my B12 is at now.
    My question is could the B12 shots have cause my Folate levels to drop? Also, this is all new to me and a bit confusing could anyone give me advise on what questions I should ask the doctor and what would be the next step for me.

    Any advise would be gratefully appreciated as there seems to be so much differing opinions on B12 and Folate levels.

    Thanks

    • Hi Cynthia,
      B12 and Folate work together in the same metabolic pathway. You’ll probably want to supplement methylfolate along with your methylB12. Also, low potassium and low magnesium can cause the restless legs and other symptoms you describe. I’m not a doctor, but from the comments and other B12 forums, it seems all these nutrients are often low together and all need to be looked into and probably supplemented as you recover. I personally feel so much better on a methylB12, methylfolate, and supporting nutrients protocol. Night and day improvement in my health. Unless you have a naturopath or alternative minded doctor, many are not educated about the need for B12, the ways it can be supplemented, and the needed supporting nutrients.

      • Hi Cynthia,
        It is quite important to know which type of VB12 you were shot up with.
        There are two active forms in the body, methylVB12, which works in concert with folate and is very important for proper functioning neurones and for production of red blood cells. The other form is adenosylcobalamin, which is very important for energy production in the cellular power-houses (mitochondria). If you are deficient in methylVB12, your apparent levels of folate may be artificially higher in serum, such that once you are given the VB12 shot, the folate is then taken up and used by cells, so that the serum folate levels drop significantly. It looks like that is what has happened to you, which will make you slightly folate deficient, and will mean that you either need to eat more leafy green fresh vegetables, or you need folate supplements.
        I have a web-site with much information on vitamin B12 deficiency, although it does not have information as yet on the link up with folate. I am working on that and hopefully can add it soon.
        Check out http://vitaminb12deficiency.net.au/
        The good news is that you have recognized the deficiency. If you are still very tired after those shots, you may need adenosylcobalamin to directly drive the energy system, or mixed B group vitamins, plus zinc and Q10. Vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5 and B12 are all directly involved in the energy production, so too is zinc and Q10, although most people make enough Q10.
        You also need iron for energy, both to carry oxygen in your red blood cells and in the electron transport chain. I presume though that your doctor would have checked this.
        All this depends on why you are VB12 deficient, dietary, medication use, or genetic, or even having recently been pregnant..

    • Make sure you take methylfolate, not folic acid. Chris Kresser wrote a great article about the difference which you can find by searching this site at the bottom of the page. Whether or not you continue with B12 shots you can buy methylB12 tablets to use sublingually every day, that way you are getting the B12 you need daily, not just once a week or once a month. You might also want to take a B complex daily, one without folic acid. Once you start folate along with B12, you may need to take extra potassium. keep reading!

      • Hi Guys, thanks for all your replies, they have helped a lot more than my doctor did! I asked her could the B12 shots have brought down the Folate level and she said she “didn’t know”.
        Greg I am not sure which shots I got, but I will find out. But what you say above would explain why my folate levels dropped which is nice to know, thanks.

        Heidi, my doctor prescribed a folic acid tab. 5 mg, but I will get the methylfolate and take it instead. Thanks for the tip on the potassium. My levels there are good at the moment so I don’t want them dropping too. There is so much to read and learn on this subject!

        My B12 levels are now back up to 700 and the doctor was happy with this, so hopefully I’ll get my folate levels up and everything will stay up! I don’t know for sure why my levels dropped, more than likely due to yo yo dieting although I did feel I was eating healthfully, but maybe not good enough. I suppose I’ll find out in 3 months when I go back for my next blood test.

        Just one more question, would a deficiency in B12 and folate affect you white and red blood counts?

        Thanks all

        • Hi Cynthia,
          I am not surprised that your doctor did not know about the folate levels, for some reason it is very poorly understood by most medicos, although the interaction is really quite complex.
          Both folate, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 are essential for all cell division and also for properly folding proteins synthesized in the body. Thus if you are deficient in either of them you have a general problem with cell division and protein synthesis. Thus rapidly dividing cells such as replacement of white and red blood cells will be affected in either deficiency. These cells are very easy to measure by blood counts. What is more of a worry are the cells that you cannot measure easily. Thus, the cells that line your intestine are also rapidly replaced, but you can’t easily see that, BUT it will lead to problems with absorption of vitamins such as vitamin B12 and folate, which makes the problem worse.
          What I would urge you to do is to make sure that you continue with the vitamin B12 supplementation, as your transient increase in serum vitamin B12 generally does not last, particularly if you have not found out why.

          • It is poorly understood by medics because they receive virtually no training in nutrition in medical school. Tingling feet means tight shoes to most doctors. Only California in recent legislation requires future doctors receive some training in nutrition in medical school.

        • Keep in mind that the blood tests for both B12 and folate are only measuring the fact that you are now supplementing. A high reading at this point does NOT mean you should stop B12 or folate, it only means the supplements are in your bloodstream. IMO, a waste of money.

          • Heidi,
            I totally agree. The problem with taking supplements in the initial phase is that although the blood levels are up, it does not mean the stores are replenished. This is a major problem with vitamin B12. Thus even those people who take regular injections of vitamin B12 (every 4-6 weeks) still have to keep taking them. This in itself tells you that the stores of VB12 are not replenished.
            If you look at those that go to a vegan diet, it can take up to 5 years to become deficient, if they started with good levels. This is because the amount that can be taken into the tissues and stored at any one time is very low as the VB12 has to be on a special transport protein. A bit like trying to fill a swimming pool with a thimble. It is going to take a very long time, particularly if the pool has a leak in it (ie the VB12 is being continuously used). This fact is generally not understood by those who are deficient. Just as it takes up to 5 years for the vegans to become deficient, it may take at least this long to fully recharge the system, IF you continuously keep up a constant supply of excess VB12. It is our belief that once you are even marginally deficient you are on continual supplementation for the rest of your life. This is particularly relevant if you look at the other associated problems with deficiency, such as dementia, MS, AD, CVD, etc, peripheral neuropathy, macular degeneration, optic neuropathy. Measured VB12 deficiency is an early warning sign, which should be headed, but generally is not. The biggest problem with this is that even high dose oral supplementation does not fully recharge the system, although it may stop the situation getting worse. If you have any problems believing this just go and visit the advanced dementia units in old peoples homes. This is a situation you definitely want to avoid! Hopefully our work can prevent this.

  12. I’m a 61 yr old vegetarian and inadvertently, mostly vegan. I have been thin all my life; when my husband got ill & died 9 yrs ago, I got thinner- 5’7, 106 lbs. I’ve been SO tired for the past 7 years and kept being told 1)You should increase the dose of antidepressant and/or 2)Everyone in America is tired. Your CBC is normal. A month ago a new doc I saw for something totally unrelated suggested trying a B12 injection, as it is cheap. I did not expect any changes as I’ve been taking it sublingually with no results. It makes a BIG difference. I feel WAY better. I am quite surprised and grateful.

    • Hope, I had a very similar experience and felt like I had more energy and muscle strength after starting B12 shots. I had to increase my intake of Potassium to about 2400 mg a day as my body was using more potassium because it was no longer starved for B12. I still have problems but the B12 shots helped a lot.

      • Dear Hope,
        I am not at all surprised at the difference between the shots and the sublingual. The sublingual is not really a very good mode of delivery, and there is no conclusive evidence that shows it is better than high dose tablets. It is based upon an incorrect premise that there are blood vessels near the surface of the underside of the tongue and so the material should go into them. Well that is the problem, it doesn’t, and I don’t know of any study that has shown it does. In the intestine you have a massive area for uptake of vitamin B12, much, much bigger than under the tongue. Best estimates for 1 mg sublingual tablet, 1 mg sublingual spray or 1 mg oral tablet is that up to 10 ug gets in. If you are deficient, you are down somewhere between 10-50 mg, or around 1,000 to 50,000 times more than you can aborb by either of the 3 methods. That is why the shots are so much better. It is also why we are working on a transdermal oil that gets around the same amount as the shots.

    • I started to get excellent results from sublingual B12 when I began to put the tablet between my cheek and gum and hold it there for 1-2 hours. It is absorbed slowly, chewing it up doesn’t work. If you continue with B12 shots, make sure you are getting the active form, methylcobalamin, not the cheap imitation stuff.
      I also use adenosylcobalamin, the other active form of b12, marketed as dibencozide, with great results.

  13. HI, everyone. Just wanted to say how we underestimate Vitamin B12. My son has ASpergers syndrome. Last winter, out of the blue, he had Total Bell’s Palsy. It took him 6 months for the cheek to move, and 12 months for the nerve totally recuperate, even though his left side of face is still drooping. Everyone(including my son’s father, who is a doctor) were saying that Bell’s palsy comes only once. Well, guess what? 4 weeks ago, my son ‘s right side of the face was affected with nasty Bell’s palsy again!! His neurologist gave him anti viral and steroid. When my son came back(he is 21 years old, he was visiting his father during 2nd Bell’s occurrence) , I read so much about B12 methylcobalamine. I immediately gave him injections every other day. BELIEVE ME, AFTER 1ST INJECTION, HIS LIP STARTED MOVING. AFTER ONE WEEK, HIS FACE HAS COMPLETELY HEALED, MOVING, SMILING!!!!! MY SON’S FATHER, WHO IS A DOCTOR, SAID THAT THIS WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE . i give my son injections 1mg every other day. Hi stopped having twitches(he always had them), he is smiling and moving his lips.

    • Sue, I’d read all about Bell’s palsy being helped by B12 injections so when I developed a paralyzed vocal cord I asked the neurologist about B12 shots. I brought in the studies about B12 and Bells palsy and he scoffed and refused to give me B12. I explained that I hadn’t eaten red meat in 25 years and previously had numerous unexplained nerve problems in my back and arms. He instead wanted to get me into surgery to inject my vocal cord to plump it up with restalyne. This simple procedure was billed to my insurance at $22,000! I stupidly let him do it.

      I went to another doctor who prescribed the methylcobalamin and showed me how to inject it myself. The original neurologist commented that I was the fastest he’d ever seen someone recover from idiopathic vocal cord paralysis… I never told him I was injecting B12 weekly. Vocal cord paralysis has a 30% or more likelihood of becoming permanent as time wears on… no way in hell I wasn’t going to start injecting B12 with or without his consent.

      I must have been B12 deficient for years since after the months of injecting not only did my nerve conditions disappear but so did my life long problem with canker sores. At least one study links chronic canker sores with B12 deficiency. I also show antibodies to gluten which certainly will interfere with my own production of b12 in my gut.

      Autism spectrum disorders like your sons often cause B-vitamin deficiency as well as Magnesium… the same deficiencies that people with food allergies develop. I can see why some doctors immediately suspected diet with the explosion of autism happening.

    • Did you bother to read the article? If so you would see that nutritional yeast does not contain B12, but B12 analogues that can mask a B12 deficiency. I think you are using Chris’ article to try and get traffic to your blog post.

      • Hi to all, and particularly those who are suffering VB12 deficiency and trying to deal with it or may be about to bring it on by switching away from meat, there is a very salient article on the effect of VB12 deficiency on the nervous system. Reading it, I wouldn’t give up meat, or if I did I would be taking megadose oral or transdermal B12 all the time. You don’t want to go down the irreversible road to deficiency.
        See Lachner C, Steinle NI, Regenold WT. The neuropsychiatry of vitamin B12 deficiency in elderly patients. J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2012 Winter;24(1):5-15. doi: 10.1176/appi.neuropsych.11020052
        You can either get a copy of the article from the author who seems a lovely person, or I can send you one if you want.
        [email protected]

        • Hi Greg,

          I have been following the comments to this article almost since the beginning. I have noticed that there are a lot of people who comment on this article who eat meat and still have a deficiency with B12. It is more about being able to absorb the B12, which seems to be a major issue for a lot of people. That is why supplementing with a sublingual form of B12 is so important, regardless of ones diet. I used Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion according to the protocol of a guy on here named Fredd, who healed himself from a wheelchair with a very specific protocol.
          My husband and I have been vegan’s for 8 years. I have a B12 deficiency and he does not. I keep everything in check following some of Fredd’s protocol and my husband takes B12 here and there, but has absolutely no symptoms of any deficiencies. Since I started Fredd’s protocol I have no symptoms and a consistent flow of energy.

          • Hi Jinny,
            Well I am certianly glad that you have no overt sytmptoms of deficiency. It is of course very hard to say without seeing your MMA and Hcy levels, whether you have achieved normal levels of VB12.. Sub-clinical deficiency is very insidious, and energy levels may not be that predictive. If you see all of the possible sequelae of sub-clinical deficiency, I would want to make sure your VB12 levels were well over 300 pmol/L, or 400 pg/ml. Similarly, whilst you may have elevated your levels in serum, the real worry is the CNS, where so many of the long term problems occur, dementia, neuritis, Alzheimer’s, PD, schizophrenia, etc. Similarly if your HCY levels are not below 10-11 then your risk of CVD is so much higher, which is now touted as an unexpected sequelae of a vegetarian life style, but it is still controversial, particularly in the non-Science literature.
            You are right about absorption, in that many cases of deficiency also come from taking ant-acids, metformin use, or having gastritis, bowel resections, bacterial overgrowth, H.pylori, etc,.
            In these people oral, or sublingual, will not be anywhere near as effective as transdermal of injected VB12 as they don’t have normal uptake mechanisms for VB12. If your intestine is normal then sub-lingual (which sounds so much harder and less pleasant than topical) has the effect of slow release of material, which helps in uptake and gets more VB12 onto haptocorrin, although it is only the same as chewing your food as far as saliva goes. As for the amount of VB12 you get in from meat, remember it is not all meat. Chicken has VB12 in it, but you would have to eat 2 kg (4 lbs) per day to get adequate. If you did do that you would be so large that VB12 deficiency may only be a small part of your problems. Good to keep these discussions going. Cheers.

  14. Guys i need a small advice from you all who have experienced the vitamin b12 def. 3 months back on a random morning i woke up with dizziness and weakness. i thought this could be bcos of less sleep so ignored it but on the same day i started feeling extreme fatigue, heavy eyes, severe leg pain and tingling and pinch feeling in legs. i was full of sleep as if i havent slept for weeks. i had mild upset stomach. i made a blood test of vitamin d and vitamin d 12 and my levels for vitamin d was 10 and for vitamin b12 was 256 which my gp told was a deficiency and bcoz of this i was suffering severe weakness and chronic fatigue. i almost used to sleep for 14 hours in a day. this all went for almost 2 months. my gp gave me some injections with tablets for vit d and b12. now i feel normal but not totally fine. after 2 months i was perfectly fine for a week but again this weakness came back. i m jus worried about this as i was always fit and never had any health issues in my life. again i get weak and my leg pain starts and i end up sleeping for an hour or so.
    i would be very greatful to u all if u can jus help me and give ur advice on this.. Thank You ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Hi Aakash,
      In addition to B12, please make sure you are getting enough potassium and magnesium, as it can cause these sorts of issues. Magnesium especially helped me with my sleep and tingly legs problem. Do a little googling to see which magnesium is best to take, as there are different forms.

      • Thanks Amber,
        i have been prescribed with some medicines and i am having that but the problem is that when i stopped it for a while these things again started but it was mild as compared to that it was in the start. i mean are these symptoms normal in the b12 deficiency bcoz im worried. like sleeping for long time, always weak and sleepy even after sleeping for 12-14 hrs. and ya now recently i have been started getting dry skin as well. may be this is bcoz of the desert climate as i live in the middle east and summer has started here but then also was just worried that are all these things related to def of b12 and D.

        • I’m a little unclear. You were taking vit. D and B12 tablets, it was helping, but then you stopped taking it? Or it was some other medicine you were taking?

  15. Hello, My blood tests came back HCt 36, HGB 11.9 RBC 4.12 Ferritin6.8 and B12 228.Could my B12 level which is still the normal range be the cause of my symptoms, tiredness not affected by lots of sleep,breathlessness, pins and needles in legs and palms of hands,a strange feeling of being punch drunk, twitchy legs, brain fog,and general feeling under the weather? All my other blood levels seem normal including folic acid. I would really appreciate some advice, I am usually a very active and sporty year 40 year old woman, and over the last 6 months have steadily dropped all the activities I love through lack of energy and exhaustion. My forgetfullness and lack of mental clarity is frightening me and I sometimes feel like I am going mad! I would really like to get my life back on track and get back my ‘get up and go!’ I would be very grateful for any advice.

    • Hi Julie,
      Your symptoms of forgetfulness, lack of mental clarity, tiredness, pins and needles, twitchy legs (restless leg syndrome) and generally feeling under the weather certainly sound like VB12 deficiency.
      Your VB12 level, if is is 228pg/ml, or even 228 pmol/L would all be regarded as low. Our research shows that sub-clinical deficiency starts at around 250-260 pmol/L or 340 pg/ml, so you are considerably below this. Chris has quite a lot of information on his site, but there is more at http://www.mentorconsulting.net/VB12Home.htm

      • Hi, i was wondering, I have started supplementing for my low B12 and iron, how long on average should it take for me to get my zap back? Should I feel a significant energy increase or or is it typically a slow, steady process? Is there a guideline to how long it should take to feel 100% again?

        • I have been taking the B-12 for about four months and still do not feel any more energy. I am not sure how long it takes.

          • HI Julee and Julie,
            The B12 and zap is a strange thing. It normally needs quite high levels of VB12 to get it, which you normally get from shots, but you can also get from transdermOil VB12. You will need adenosylcobalamin or OHCbl preferably. In addition, you also need to be having at least RDA amounts of B1, B2, B3 and B5, as these are all used in the energy (Krebb’s, TCA, Citric acid cycle). If these are low the energy cycle can’t turn.
            Another alternative is low thyroxin levels, which is very common in women as they get older. If you suffer from hyopthyroidism, many of the symptoms are similar to VB12 deficiency. Also up to 20% of people who are hypothyroidic are also VB12 deficient.

            • Hi Greg,
              one day before 2 and a half months i woke up and i started having riniging ears,depression,upset stomach, mbrain fog and memory problems including shortage of breath and lack of energy.I went to the doctor did cbc and had vitamin b12 low as 186 and doctor gave me jamieson 1000 mcg sublinguial ,i used for 2 months had a little difference but my memory got worst and had brain fog including blurred vision.I switched to ola loa hydroxycobalamin and magnesium from natural health and foods and no difference 2 weeks.I dont know what to do as its killing my social life coudnt do anything as i have also skipped my exams because of poor memory and brain fog.I took one injection methylcobalamin 5000 mcg from a naturopath a week ago but didnt felt anything instead my memory and brain fog is becoming worst and i also have pain in my legs.Now i have been to my school’s health doctor and she asked me to do tests for b12 including glucose,potassium,HbA1C,TSH,creatinine,uric acid,sodium,chloride,ALT vit B12 and ferritin.She said if its only b12 she will start injections but she wants to check the others as well to make sure if no other vitamin deficiency.I am wondering if one injection didnt gave me any difference which form of injection should i take or any other suggestion as it is killing education and social life both.

              • Hi sgujar, apart from you very low B12 levels measured in serum, one extra way you can determine that you are functionally vitamin B12 deficient is to have your homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels tested. If homocysteine is high you need methyl, if MMA is high you need adenosylcobalamin. There is one caveat to this, and if you have MTHFR or similar mutations, you may need methyl but many MTHFR individuals don’t seem to make a lot of homocysteine, as they “just can’t”. One shot of methyl won’t necessarily boost your energy levels. You need adenosyl to fire up your mitochondria.

  16. Hi Lorraine,
    If your B12 is sooooo low, you really will have trouble getting your levels up over 300 and keeping them there. Data out on MMA and Hcy says that you are going to have problems if you are below 257 pmol/L, so you are way low. Your injections will only give you temporary improvement for reasons that you will see on the discussion. For more you can check out
    http://www.mentorconsulting.net/VB12Home.htm
    where I have been trying to put much data on.
    You will find it hard to get the medicos to understand all this, for some reason they appear VERY uninformed about B12 deficiency.
    Good luck,
    You can email me direct if you want info that you can’t find.
    [email protected]

    • Lorraine,
      I too was diagnosed with pernicious anemia, and thankfully found a naturopath who could identify it and treat it (B12 injections like you are doing plus diet and supplements). Greg has also been really helpful with information so I can do the best I can with where I am. I never tested my serum B12 before I started injections so have no idea what it was then, but now things are much better overall. I hope you can hang in there and get the help you need — working with a practitioner who understands this is not always easy, but so important. And Greg has some valuable data to support you hopefully so you can find some relief. I started out with daily B12 injections then went to 2x a week and now am on 1x a week and that works great for me. I never went to sublinguals because it was believed I couldn’t absorb them as well. For others, those work great. It took a long time (2 years) to see things really turn around but it has so been worth it. If I can be of help to you at all, please let me know.

    • Thank you for the information I will look into the information you have advised. I got my last shot yesterday and no further information I was told to take 100 mg of b12 tablet form yes 100mg the pharmacist thought this was hilarious and gave me the sublingual 1000 apparently you just have to deal with it. It is not funny when you can’t walk in a straight line and everyone thinks you are drunk. The Dr’s don’t seem to want to discover the real picture.
      Thanks for the advice

  17. Hi,
    I have just found this post last Friday I was diagnosed with Pernicious Anemia after a test for the antibodies I do not have this. I have had 2 injections of B12 and will get another tomorrow and then he says that I can’t have any more and will have to go onto tablets. My B12 was 130 and folate was 1030 my problem is I am walking around like a drunk and this has got worse today. I am having severe bowel problems and have organised to get this checked out within a month. My concern is that the damage is permanent I already have a permanent back injury and am scared of falling and causing more damage. I initially thought that my bp tablets had knocked out the potassium as my bp was dropping low and I was vague in the head then the tingling in the hands and feet started. Any advise you can give me would be appreciated.
    Thanks Lorraine