What do all of these chronic diseases have in common?
- Alzheimer’s, dementia, cognitive decline, and memory loss (collectively referred to as “aging”)
- Multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurological disorders
- Mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and psychosis
- Cardiovascular disease
- Learning or developmental disorders in kids
- Autism spectrum disorder
- Autoimmune disease and immune dysregulation
- Cancer
- Male and female infertility
Answer: Their signs and symptoms can all be mimicked by a vitamin B12 deficiency.
An Invisible Epidemic
B12 deficiency isn’t a bizarre, mysterious disease. It’s written about in every medical textbook, and its causes and effects are well-established in the scientific literature.
However, the condition is far more common than most healthcare practitioners and the general public realize. Data from a Tufts University study suggests that 40 percent of people between the ages of 26 and 83 have plasma B12 levels in the low normal range—a range at which many experience neurological symptoms. Nine percent had an outright nutrient deficiency, and 16 percent exhibited “near deficiency.” Most surprising to the researchers was the fact that low B12 levels were as common in younger people as they were in the elderly. (1)
That said, this type of deficiency has been estimated to affect about 40 percent of people over 60 years of age. It’s entirely possible that at least some of the symptoms we attribute to “normal” aging—such as memory loss, cognitive decline, and decreased mobility—are at least in part caused by a deficiency.
Why Is It Underdiagnosed?
This is why most studies underestimate true levels of deficiency. Many deficient people have so-called “normal” levels of B12.
Yet, it is well-established in the scientific literature that people with B12 levels between 200 pg/mL and 350 pg/mL—levels considered “normal” in the U.S.—have clear vitamin deficiency symptoms. (2) Experts who specialize in the diagnosis and treatment of a deficiency, like Sally Pacholok, R.N., and Jeffrey Stuart, D.O., suggest treating all patients that are symptomatic and have B12 levels less than 450 pg/mL. (3) They also recommend treating patients who show normal B12 levels but also have elevated urinary methylmalonic acid (MMA), homocysteine, or holotranscobalamin, which are other markers of a deficiency in vitamin B12.
B12 deficiency can mimic the signs of Alzheimer’s, dementia, multiple sclerosis, and several mental illnesses. Find out what this vitamin does and learn how to treat a deficiency. #B12 #B12deficiency #cognitivedecline
In Japan and Europe, the lower limit for B12 is between 500 and 550 pg/mL. Those levels are associated with psychological and behavioral symptoms, such as:
- Cognitive decline
- Dementia
- Memory loss (4)
Some experts have speculated that the acceptance of higher levels as normal in Japan and the willingness to treat levels considered “normal” in the U.S. explain the low rates of Alzheimer’s and dementia in that country.
What Is Vitamin B12 and Why Do You Need It?
Vitamin B12 works together with folate in the synthesis of DNA and red blood cells. It’s also involved in the production of the myelin sheath around the nerves and the conduction of nerve impulses. You can think of the brain and the nervous system as a big tangle of wires. Myelin is the insulation that protects those wires and helps them to conduct messages.
Severe B12 deficiency in conditions like pernicious anemia (an autoimmune condition where the body destroys intrinsic factor, a protein necessary for the absorption of the vitamin) used to be fatal until scientists figured out death could be prevented by feeding patients raw liver, which contains high amounts of B12. But anemia is the final stage of a deficiency. Long before anemia sets in, deficient patients will experience several other problems, including fatigue, lethargy, weakness, memory loss, and neurological and psychiatric problems.
The Stages of a Deficiency
B12 deficiency occurs in four stages, beginning with declining blood levels of the vitamin (stage I), progressing to low cellular concentrations of the vitamin (stage II), an increased blood level of homocysteine and a decreased rate of DNA synthesis (stage III), and finally, macrocytic anemia (stage IV). (5)
Common B12 Deficiency Symptoms
The signs can look like the symptoms of several other serious disorders, and the neurological effects of low B12 can be especially troubling.
Here are some of the most common vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms:
- Tingling or numbness in the hands and feet
- Brain fog, confusion, and memory problems
- Depression
- Premature aging
- Cognitive decline
- Anemia
- Weakness
- Fatigue
- Reduced appetite and weight loss
- Constipation
- Trouble balancing (6)
Children can also show symptoms, including developmental issues and learning disabilities if their B12 levels are too low.
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Why Is It So Common?
The absorption of B12 is complex and involves several steps—any of which can go wrong. Any of the following can cause B12 malabsorption:
- Intestinal dysbiosis
- Leaky gut and gut inflammation
- Atrophic gastritis or hypochlorhydria, or low stomach acid
- Pernicious anemia
- Medications, especially proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) and other acid-suppressing drugs
- Alcohol
- Exposure to nitrous oxide, during either surgery or recreational use
This explains why a deficiency can occur even in people eating large amounts of B12-containing animal products. In fact, many of my patients that are B12 deficient are following a Paleo diet where they eat meat two or three times daily.
Who Is at Risk for a Deficiency?
In general, the following groups are at greatest risk for a deficiency:
- Vegetarians and vegans
- People aged 60 or over
- People who regularly use PPIs or acid-suppressing drugs
- People on diabetes drugs like metformin
- People with Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, celiac, or IBS
- Women with a history of infertility and miscarriage
Note to Vegetarians and Vegans: B12 Is Found Only in Animal Products
You cannot get B12 from plant-based sources. This vitamin is only found in animal products. That’s why vegetarians and vegans need to know the signs of deficiency—and the steps necessary to fix the problem.
A common myth among vegetarians and vegans is that it’s possible to get B12 from plant sources like:
- Fermented soy
- Spirulina
- Brewers yeast
However, plant foods said to contain B12 actually contain B12 analogs called cobamides that block the intake of and increase the need for true B12. (7) That explains why studies consistently demonstrate that up to 50 percent of long-term vegetarians and 80 percent of vegans are deficient in B12. (8, 9)
Seaweed is another commonly cited plant source of B12, but this idea is controversial. Research indicates that there may be important differences in dried versus raw purple nori; namely, raw nori may be a good source of B12, while dried nori may not be. One study indicated that the drying process used for seaweed creates B12 analogs, making it a poor source of the vitamin, while animal research suggests that dried nori can correct a B12 deficiency. (10, 11) Seaweed may provide B12, but it’s not clear if those benefits are negated when that seaweed is dried. I recommend caution for that reason.
The Impact of a Deficiency on Children
The effects of B12 deficiency on kids are especially alarming. Studies have shown that kids raised until age six on a vegan diet are still B12 deficient even years after they start eating at least some animal products. In one study, the researchers found an association between a child’s B12 status and their performance on testing measuring:
- Spatial ability
- Fluid intelligence
- Short-term memory
Researchers found that formerly vegan children scored lower than their omnivorous counterparts in each area. (12)
The deficit in fluid intelligence is particularly troubling, the researchers said, because this area impacts a child’s ability to reason, work through complex problems, learn, and engage in abstract thinking. Defects in any of these areas could have long-term consequences for kids.
I recognize that there are many reasons why people choose to eat the way they do, and I respect people’s right to make their own choices. I also know that, like all parents, vegetarians and vegans want the best for their children. This is why it’s absolutely crucial for those that abstain from animal products to understand that there are no plant sources of B12 and that all vegans and most vegetarians should supplement with B12.
This is especially important for vegetarian or vegan children or pregnant women, whose need for B12 is even greater. If you’re not willing to take a dietary supplement, it may be time to think twice about your vegetarian or vegan diet.
How to Treat a Deficiency
One of the greatest tragedies of the B12 epidemic is that diagnosis and treatment are relatively easy and cheap—especially when compared to the treatment patients will need if they’re in a late stage of deficiency. A B12 test can be performed by any laboratory, and it should be covered by insurance. If you don’t have insurance, you can order it yourself from a lab like DirectLabs.com.
As always, adequate treatment depends on the underlying mechanism causing the problem. People with pernicious anemia or inflammatory gut disorders like Crohn’s disease are likely to have impaired absorption for their entire lives and will likely require B12 injections or high-dose oral cobalamin indefinitely. This may also be true for those with a severe deficiency that’s causing neurological symptoms.
Typically in the past, most B12 experts recommended injections over high-dose oral cobalamin for people with pernicious anemia and an advanced deficiency involving neurological symptoms. However, recent studies have suggested that high-dose oral or nasal administration may be as effective as injections for those with B12 malabsorption problems. (13, 14)
Try Supplementing
Japanese studies indicate that methylcobalamin is even more effective in treating neurological symptoms and that it may be better absorbed because it bypasses several potential problems in the B12 absorption cycle. (15, 16) On top of that, methylcobalamin provides the body with methyl groups that play a role in various biological processes important to overall health.
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Change Your Diet
Nourishing your body through whole food is the best way to get the vitamins and nutrients you need. If you’re low on B12, try eating some vitamin-rich foods like:
- Liver
- Shellfish
- Clams
- Oysters
- Organ Meats
Eating other kinds of seafood, like octopus, fish eggs, lobster, and crab, can also help you attain normal B12 levels. If you’re seafood-averse, you can also get this vitamin from:
- Lamb
- Beef
- Eggs
- Cheese
It’s important to note, though, that the amount of B12 in these foods is nowhere near as high as the levels in shellfish and organ meats.
What to Do if You’re Experiencing Vitamin B12 Deficiency Symptoms
If you suspect you have a deficiency, the first step is to get tested. You need an accurate baseline to work from.
If you are B12 deficient, the next step is to identify the mechanism causing the deficiency. You’ll probably need help from a medical practitioner for this part. Once the mechanism is identified, the appropriate form (injection, oral, sublingual, or nasal) of supplementation, the dose, and the length of treatment can be selected.
So, next time you or someone you know is “having a senior moment,” remember: It might not be “just aging.” It could be B12 deficiency.
I’ve been reading this entire thread with interest as I figure out what step I need to take. I’m 44 and a year ago, I was feeling miserable (very fatigued, short term memory loss,weigh gain (I’m active and thin), cold, etc.). All the Dr’s were brushing me off and basically my Primary Dr referred me to a Biomedical kind of throwing her arms up not sure what to do with me. Frustrated I went to this Dr. even though I had to pay out of pocket because I was so desperate.
I did receive some useful information, my B12 was at 224, D3 was at 30, thyroid was just above acceptable for hypo. To me this Dr was a quack so took my results back to my Dr. I was put on B12 shots, but had a reaction and had to stop after about 6 of them. My levels were tested and were at about 574 Dr said all was good. I’ve had them tested about every three months recently because even on thyroid meds, I’m still unusually fatigued. Most recent one was 342 (it seems to be falling about 100 every 3-6 months). Thyroid Dr said that number was fine, but it is NOT fine for me. I’m back to the unusual fatigue and the short term memory loss (I know what I want to say, but can’t think of the word).
Who do I see that will take me seriously and figure out why I do not absorb B12? I’m not a vegan, I’m in great health otherwise, don’t take acid meds. I’m too young to feel so tired, that it exhausts me just to think about what I need to do.
I have pernicous anemia due to problems with absorption of my B12. I now take B12 injections and 5-methyl folic acid. I have been told by my doctor that my B12 problems are due to methylation problems. You can read about it on Dr. Amy Yasko’s site. Dr. Yasko is a researcher and much of what she talks about is directed for children but also applies to adults.
Hi I’ve been reading these posts with a lot of interest. I was diagnoised with b12 deficiency four years ago and given oral b12 my levels increased and tingling and vibratingfeelings got much better my levels were 158. My gp took me off b12 twice as my levels were high but my symptoms came back. I then relocated and changed my gp and my levels were 258 the gp told me they were normal and refused to treat me. I told him that my levels were158 at one point so he gave me an injection this helped the symptoms but they did not go like they had previously so I asked for more frequently injections so I’m on one every two months. The go told me the symptoms were not due to by b12 level ad they were normal at 377 I still have symptoms the gp referred me for verve conductive tests which were 100 per cent normal and now I’m referred to a neurologist and I’m worried it’s ms but my symptoms were ok when I was on 50 mcg tablet per day. The GP states at a level of 258/377 tingling would not be caused by lack of b12 i would like your opinion Chris.
Thank you for swift reply. Ive been told by way of letter today they need to repeat b12 test in one mths time so hopefully they arent going to completely dismiss it.
Ok I first got ill fatigue and dizzyiness about aged 14 I was also getting a lot of acid reflux and was treated for helicobacter pylori. Few years on I got a lot worse would be so tired I felt drugged, achy, sensitive eyes and mouth ulcers. I got worse after first child at 22 (just walking in park left be breathless) and worse again after second child a few years later. I breastfed too and felt slightly better whilst breastfeeding but very bad when stopped.
I was diagnosed with CFS. If I walk up stairs I am breathless and legs cramp and ache. I always feel tired. I am dizzy and if I swing on child’s swing even just for 20 seconds I feel disoreinatated, sometimes turning round quickly does this too. I can’t strighten fingers on right hand and get itchy tongue and red patches on roof of mouth. My eyes are v sensitive, flashing lights can bring on visual migraines. My nails have had deep ridges vertical and split along these ridges since age 15. I have no nail moons and pale yellowlish skin.
I finally got Dr to check my b12, it came back at 160. I was told this is satisfactory. My full blood count is within normal limits. Dr just said I need to try anti depressants. I am reluctant to.
I work part time and always without fail exercise slowly each day. No matter how much I do I do not improve. If I try to exercise properly say dancing I get dizzy and my vision starts to blur. I used to get sinus infections but have a daily sinus pain in left cheek. Had CT of sinus and they said it shouldn’t hurt that much. I also have irratable bladder and get cold easily. I’m 29 now and feel like an old woman.
A B12 of 160 is absolutely not “satisfactory”. It’s well below the low end of the lab range, which is 211, and it is documented clearly in the scientific literature that even levels between 211-450 are associated with neurological damage. I’d strongly advise you to find another doctor as soon as possible and begin treatment for B12 deficiency. Your doctor is either grossly misinformed or negligent.
Hello,
I took the blood test 3 weeks ago and I have 250 of vitamin B. Doctor gave me vitamin B12 and another vitamin b complex. I took both and I started to have a terrible headache, I had in somnia and very sensitive to the light, also a bright yellow pi. In this case that vitamin b makes me feel so bad how can I do??? is there any o ther way to absor vitamin B without those symptoms??? Thank you!!!!!
Hi Chris,
I get injected with B12 due to pernicious anemia and I read on here that they say in France that that can give higher odds of cancer. What is your understanding of these findings?
Also what is the relationship with B12 deficiency and carcinoid tumors?
I read they can sit for up to nine years undetected in three different sites in the gut and are deadly! I also saw something about 5-htp which people take as a natural anti-depressant being present in some of these tumors. Please let us know more on our risks and what to do to check!!!
Thanks!
Thank you for reminding me about the eyes straight forward. Animals of prey do have eyes like that while animals preyed upon have them on the side. The things provided are old, 2003, and back in the 90’s and thank you for helping put this into perspective. Chris has provided this forum for us to share, learn and grow. Not fight, confuse, rant and bring speculative info. I have never gotten the answer to what plant B12 is derived from as there is none. I do not believe that there is a safe way to get it from bacteria. Meat does not provide us B12 by giving us bacteria, as was said. I am comfortable with Chris’ sources and not with the others.
So, moving on, I am still giving myself injections and I too, have neurological issues and frustration with getting my CIDP under control. I have a fear that I will just slowing lose all feeling in my extremities.
Does anyone on here have a diagnosis of CIDP as well as B12 issues?
One other thing. While I am not sure taking B12 is good for every one, it will not harm anyone. That is key. And to phrase meat as corpses, come on. You are making vegans appear less on this site Corvus, not making a good impression. I have seen more ppl die from eating improperly grown vegetables than meat, and that is a fact. If you want to march on Hormel or wherever, fine. That is not here. We are ppl who came here to find out what Chris had to say. If we don’t like it we leave. It is his site. Simple. We can share experience, other ideas, but you are not doing that.
Corvus
Cool u know so much and have opinions. I’m not evaluating them nor following the thread all that much. But have you looked at the recent NYT article re: B12? I’ve not read comments there; perhaps you could influence more folks on the national if not international audience over there. That way you can leave chriskresser.com for those who seek Chris’ wisdom and carry on elsewhere.
Sorry, I didn’t know this was an exclusive club of people who believe everything without questions or double checking any of the information. I actually got to his site via something on chemical imbalances that I agreed with a lot. Then I saw this stuff and he lost a lot of credibility, because I, you know, questioned him instead of automatically believing it. Perhaps you’re right, this isn’t the place for someone like me. See you all.
Only if you think it exclusive. I think you’ve done more than “question”. And that’s great. Good luck and I hope you get the help you are seeking. You seem like a great person; energetic and selfless.
Agreed. This is not a site for activism. That is the point. We are here sharing what we are doing not bashing vegans, or meat eaters or any other thing. It is getting old. Please find another place to rant and allow us to get what we need. I will move forward with my delicious steak corpse and be done with it. You can have your soy burger. Personally, I do not care what you eat, why do you insist on caring what I eat? Leave it Corvus and move it. Please. This is not a rant site.
Corvus, are your sure about your theory of man being a non-meat-eater?
We don´t have the GI-tract like the animals we eat, eg, our guts are not shaoed for all that granis and cellulosa.
By the way, ever looked att our eyes? sitting in the front, looking stright forward…
That´s the eyes of a hunter, not of the game.
One thing is to question information, something else is to attack information and the people providing it.
I do not know why I allow you to draw me in but I have to respond to this.
Corvus, this blog/site is sponsored by Chris Kesser to educate ppl who areB12 deficient and share the in depth study that he has conducted. It is not to necessarily bring ten year old study info done on ten vegans as fact to fight. No one is accusing vegans of being inferior humans. B12 does not exist in plant life, period. As for your assertion it does in bacteria, uh no thanks. We were born with teeth to tear meat and that is a fact. The balance in nature, were mankind to completely stop eating meat, would impact the world environment horrifically. Deer, if not hunted, cannot find enough food. There is a cycle of life. YOU do not have to eat meat but back off. This site is not dedicated to the belittlement of vegans or vegetarians, but neither is it a forum for them to rant.
Chris uses material that is current from reliable sources. As a person who enjoys this site would you please stop. Please share your experiences and defending your choices and culture. That is not what this site is for. You are not bringing any help or positive energy to us and it is upsetting.
As for celiac disease, can it not be detected fairly easily from the area at the beginning of the intestinal tract? One thing is for certain, one size does not fit all. I am learning that. Also, I am using an iPad so overlook spelling and grammar. It changes things randomly and I cannot review them properly.
Actually, we are born with the teeth of omnivores, closer to the herbivore side of things. All herbivores have canine teeth you speak of anyways as well. Ever look at the teeth of the gorilla? http://www.ereads.com/uploaded_images/gorilla.jpg They eat all plants. And our teeth are very flat compared to theirs. I don’t blame you for bringing up that point as it is one of the most popular points that people are taught in school, the days of the “4 food groups” and all that- one of them being cow milk. What if it was breast milk? Wouldn’t that be weird? Our culture consumes baby cow food in drones and acts like it is natural. It’s killing us and the planet. And other natural arguments I am sure you know, don’t fit much into this http://www.willowcreekfoods.com/images/Factory%20Cow%20Herd.jpg which is what about 99% of farms look like (that have cows). Ever see a pig outside when you’re driving through a rural area? That’s because they’re all inside in gestation crates and such. Every time you hear about a contaminated plant with e coli, that’s livestock runoff (ie shite) running into the plant and water systems. And animal farming, like I said previously, uses almost all of the food and water in the world and is the top cause of climate change.
So, do you really think stopping eating animals would HURT the environement? You still have not explained how….
As for deer, google deer farming. Deer are over populated in part because of HUMANS over urbanizing into their habitats, building new roads before the deer can find new habitats from the last time humans mowed down their forest homes. And there is big money in deer breeding to keep those populations up, to continue to justify killing animals for sport first and food second. Natural predators being hunted out of existence by hunters and animal farmers is also responsible for animal overpopulation, so again, if humans stopped eating animals, the whole environment would benefit.
Meat is a corpse. What do you think it is? Flesh that grows on a tree? Our culture has referred to dead animals as “meat” so people can have an easier time torturing and killing them without guilt. Do you like cats? Doggies? Same as pigs and cows and chickens. Only some species are labeled meat so people can kill them. What if this article said you needed to eat dogs to keep your b12 up? Would you? QUESTION THINGS. I just call eating animal corpses what it is- eating the flesh of animals who were killed by humans. Dead animals. Corpses. I’m just being realistic and not living in a fantasy world where corpses are reduced to “meat”.
But that wasn’t why I am here. I was here to address the passive shots at veganism by the author, whether you see them or not, and his convenient use of 1% of the information about diet to make his claims. As much as you seem to be annoyed with me bringing “negative” energy (eg more truth to the story) I was glad to have this exchange with you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this information, for our sake, for the animals’ sake, for the planet’s sake.
Yow know? While you might have some decent points in your matter-of-fact arguments, your demeanor and closing self-righteous sentence: “…..Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this information, for our sake, for the animals’ sake, for the planet’s sake….” just makes all your entire spill bullshit.
Upon re-reading the original post by the author of this blog (Chris), I don’t know where you see that he was taking shots at vegetarians/vegans with this article. Rather, he stated true-facts that: YES, if you are a vegetarian or vegan, you are AT RISK of low b12 levels. And the true-fact that YES the ***most direct-efficient ways to maintain healthy b12 levels*** are by not being vegetarian/vegan (and consuming animal products), OR by taking supplemental b12 in your diet. SIMPLE AS THAT. Nowhere it tells you that being vegetarian/vegan is a bad thing, only that you should do it responsibly towards your own health.
While I’m omnivore, I’m someone who has been suffering b12-deficiency for over a decade now due to health/genetical issues, and can tell you by-experience that low b12 really f’s you up if not known and controlled. From depression, chemical imbalances, neurological damage, low energy, spending a week in the freaking hospital trying to figure out what is wrong with you, plus multiple doctors appointments after that, monthly b12 injections, etc…. it IS NOT a fun time to be b12 deficient, and something that I do not wish even to my worst enemy.
After all that happened to me, I’ve shared my experience to my friends/family as a word-of-caution. And yes, I’ve shared my experience specially to my friends/acquaintances who are vegetarian/vegan, knowing that they are at risk, all in the hope that they will not have to go through what I went to.
So, in short, THAT is in-itself the purpose of this article and subsequent comments: B12 deficiency is indeed a silent ailment/epidemic out there affecting many people. And so, take care of your health and your diet -whichever diet you chose to follow. And that YES, if you are vegetarian/vegan, make sure you are informed about b12 deficiency, and that you are at-risk of it -that is all.
Thank you for sharing Lucia! (and to all who do on this site). Your third paragraph hits close to home for me.
Here you go http://www.pamrotella.com/health/b12.html
Not a single credible study listed on that page. I’ve posted several, and just take a moment and search Pubmed and you’ll find that B12 deficiency is very common amongst vegans.
For example, this study showed that 50% of vegans are B12 deficient and would be expected to have a higher risk of developing clinical problems due to B12 deficiency. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20648045
No response to the post that I made that was more that two words?
The latest data on the dietary intakes of vegans was just published last month.[1] The diets of about 100 vegans were recorded for a week and were found deficient in calcium, iodine and vitamin B12. Using the same standards, though, the standard American diet are deficient in 7 nutrients! The diet of your average American is not only also deficient in calcium and iodine, it’s deficient in vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium as well.[2]
Not only does the American public have over twice as many nutritional deficiencies in their diets, vegans were shown to have higher intakes of 16 out of the 19 nutrients studied, includeing calcium. The vegans were getting more than enough protein on average and three times more vitamin C, three times more vitamin E, three times more fiber. Vegans got twice the folate, twice the magnesium, twice the copper, twice the manganese.
And of course the vegans had twice the fruit and vegetable intake and half the saturated fat intake, meeting the new 2003 World Health Organization guidelines for fat intake and weight control.[3] Almost 2/3 of Americans are overweight.[4] In contrast, only 11% of the vegans were overweight. Almost one in three Americans are obese.[4] Zero of the 98 vegans in this study were obese.
So when a meateater asks you “Where you get your B12?” You can counter with “Where do you get your vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium? And while you’re at it, you can ask them how they keep their sodium, saturated fat, total fat and cholesterol intake under control (not to mention their weight).[5]
REFERENCES
[1] Results from the German Vegan Study. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 57(August 2003):947.
[2] USDA. Food and Nutrient Intakes by Individuals in the United States, by Region, 1994-96.
[3] World Health Organization Technical Report Series 916. Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases. 2003.
[4] Centers for Disease Control.
[5] Then you can finally answer their question and proudly say B12 fortified foods or B12 supplements Of course the fact that we’re seriously deficient in B12 should not be taken lightly. Evidence suggests that our low B12 intakes make be shaving literally years off of the lives of vegetarians and vegans, so make sure you get your B12!–I recommend ” Vitamin B12: Are You Getting It? ”
Source: http://www.veganmd.org/september2003.html
Corvus
I don’t feel like I should apologize for eating meat. And, not all meat eaters are gulping down trans fats and junk, ok? Not all of us are calcium deficient, etc. But, B12 does not exist in vegetables, It is only available to humans who decide to eat a strictly vegan diet as a supplement. So, it is a fair question for someone to ask a vegan, but not for a vegan to ask a meat eater.
I am not sure why it feels that your posts are angry, or attacking, do you feel that you are being criticized for not eating meat? I hope not. That is a personal choice and I support your choice. I just don’t like to feel attacked for mine. Sorry. I am not B12 deficient because of my diet. I am not deficient in any other area, or for any other element or vitamin.
Thanks.
Oh, and all my blood panels are spot on, as is my weight, etc. Just so you know.
I was just dispelling the myth that all vegans are nutrient deficient and that eating animals is the superior diet. Both diets require supplementation. The meat eating diet just requires a lot more. I think it is you who are feeling attacked by my post.
Your posts are almost hostile toward meat eaters, and not all meat eaters need supplementation. I am curious about your stating that you get your B12 from plant or bacteria? Really, I have never known of any source for B12 outside of animal sources, or supplementation. What bacteria or plant do you use to provide B12 to yourself? My vitamin and blood panels are great, I only have an issue with B12. And, I am sick with a brain tumor and a disease called CIDP. I have reached a point where I just do not enjoy eating. End of story.
I do not feel attacked but I feel hostility from you, and it becomes uneasy after a bit. You seem to be challenging everything that Chris says, and personally, I trust his sources as well as some other solid sites offered. I am not into random sites that just come up with data.
I do not believe that meat eaters require a “lot more” supplements than vegans. Sorry. You are biased. And I do not think that all diets have to be supplemented. Sorry. I am not with you on that either. Many ppl do not require additional pills to be healthy.
I do not think that all vegans are nutrient deficient, but B12 is an issue for reasons cited.
If my post was hostile toward anyone it was the man using tiny bits of science and leaving out the rest to sell his paleo diet ideas and try to get people to believe that consuming animal corpses is good for you, while simultaneously trying to make it look like veganism is bad for you. Neither is true.
Many vegans don’t need supplementation either. As I said above, b12 comes from a bacteria, not from animal flesh. This bacteria can be found in nutritional yeast and other vegan foods. Taking a b12 supplement is just good for everyone regardless of diet. That is why you will see most people on this thread who have been b12 deficient saying they aren’t vegan.
Corpse eaters get so defensive when the dominant paradigm of eating tortured animals is questioned, when in fact, that questioning should be welcomed since most of the food grow and water depleted is due to feeding livestock, that animal agriculture is the number one cause of climate change (ahead of cars), and that animals suffer and die so people can eat their flesh. If we wanna talk about health, and what’s good for us, let’s talk about the big picture, not pick one random nutrient that people who don’t eat meat are sometimes conveniently deficient in.
I bet if this post was about meat eaters being deficient in nutrients and how they should stop eating animals, people would go nuts.
People need to realise that it is gluten damage to the small intestine that causes malabsorption of B12. 80% of the immune system is in the small intestine so people who are gluten intolerant or have celiac disease are often ill with other diseases also and still don’t know in many cases that it is gluten that is underlying their problems. In our grandmother’s day, flour contained only 2% gluten. It now contains 55% gluten and most are eating way more bread, hamburgers, pastries etc than they ever have done before. There are millions of people who are gluten intolerant yet don’t have the slightest idea that they are. I can speak from experience here as I was 59 before it finally dawned on me that gluten was killing me. By then it had done so much damage to my small intestine that I have lactose intolerance, fructose malabsorption, histamine intolerance and salicylate sensitivity. My diet is extremely limited and however much I would like not to eat meat it is impossible as it is the only source of protein I can digest. Since learning that I am gluten intolerant I have researched it thoroughly. Anybody reading this who is genuinely concerned about good health should Google gluten intolerance and the diseases it causes. From the Celiac Disease centre of the University of Chicago comes the information that there are over 300 different diseases and symptoms caused by gluten. B12 malabsorption is just one of them. Gluten also attacks the brain causing any number of mental health problems, including depression, bipolar disease, ADHD………..the list is endless. It still blows me away to realise that billions of people are not even aware that it is gluten that causes the majority of illnesses.
I am a bit late responding to this, but I use a probiotic to provide my B12 and have excellent results — much better than using a sublingual B12. For years I supplemented with a nutritional yeast based B complex, but after reacting to a homeopathic remedy, my body could not longer absorb B12 from the supplement. Then I was on sublingual B12 with poor results, but it still kept me from totally losing it. If you do a little research, you will find that beneficial bacteria in the gut do produce B vitamins including B12.
Hi Margaret, do you mind sharing with me which probiotic you are taking, thank you.
AS for the animal vs plant debate. I would not be eating meat(for the sole reason of the treatment of animals) if I could digest anything else. Presently meat is the only food I am able to somewhat digest. I’m sick and tired of eating meat, and it breaks my heart how these animals are treated. I opt for cruelty free meat which is very expensive(unfortunately) . I’m not able to work because of my health…so I limit my meals to once a day. I tried a plant based diet and it almost killed me. 🙁 … If we choose to eat meat(for health reasons) then we need to make a conscience choice of going cruelty free. Many local farmers provide and treat their animals humanely. Or so is the case with the farmers I buy from. … if we all make this choice, factory farming will end!!! … ..anyhow. I do wish good health to everyone here.
Corvus,
You are comparing nutritional deficiencies in vegans versus the Standard American Diet. The standard american diet does not take into account the quality of the food being eaten. It is too broad, and I’m sure there’s a big difference between meat eaters who get their meat from McDonalds (loaded with all kinds of who-knows-what by-products and chemicals) versus those who seek out pasture-raised cows and whole foods.
There’s also a difference between those who care about their nutrition, and those who load up on empty calories and sugar-laden junk. People who follow the Standard American Diet can be nutritionally deficient because of the empty calories in the form of junk food they consume. You cannot conclude from that study that meat causes deficiencies unless you test different kinds of meat eaters and find the same deficiency patterns. I would like to see a study done on the vitamin levels on SAD versus a clean Paleo diet that does not permit junk food/empty calories.
Hmmm, I looked at the vegetarians b12 studies you posted and they said they had lower levels but not that they were deficient. The vegan one did not have an abstract to read so I couldn’t read the results of that one. I am skeptical in your intention in writing this. Bacteria like nutritional yeast have alot of b12. Why did you leave that out of your article?
Before I was vegan, my iron levels were really low and all other nutrients were messed up. I have been vegan for 5 years and have never had a b12 deficiency. My tests have always been in fine range as have other vegans I know who have gotten b12 tests.
I do take a vegan multivitamin to be safe but I also did that before I was vegan. My b12 sources are all plant or bacterial and my levels are fine as are other people I know who have been tested, and their vegan kids. The vegan kids are all healthy, smart, cognitively functioning well, and growing great. I hear a lot from people that vegans are this or that but I never actually see it in real life. I do see a lot of illness from meat eating in real life quite often. And, from my research of studies published, I have found a lot more evidence that eating animals makes people sick than veganism. In fact, it is really hard to find studies that say veganism is bad for you, but very easy to find studies showing that eating animals is bad for you.
I’ve also read studies that say that vegans may be deficient in b12 or whatever, but when compared with animal eaters, the animal eaters are always deficient in a bunch of nutrients, not just one or two. So, rather than conveniently focusing on one nutrient (which may make it look like veganism is unhealthy), why not look at the whole system? Why not focus on a culture and system that subsidizes animal farming but not plant farming, therefore making eating animals an easier way to get some nutrition for some people, even if it does clog their arteries in the long run? Why not focus on the fact that a balanced vegan diet is good for you and food politics and accessibility in an animal corpse eating society probably play a huge role in any deficiency?
My mom’s B12 level is measuring the exact same number for two years in a row, 1107 pmol / l. I checked her results and they were done on different dates, not a mistake. She has PA; received monthly injections for a year, and then received four injections in one week in aug 2010.
My question: What does this indicate? Is it suspicious that the number didn’t change at all? Her GP doesn’t know what to make of it. Also, should she resume injections or supplements (she has various symptoms mentioned here)?
Thanks for the info, great site. Appreciate it,
Sanda
I’ve rang my doctor (today) for my blood results and was told that i have boarderline B-12 deficiency. and got to see my doctor tuesday to find out more. I’m only 25 and got diganosed with Iron-deficiency anemia 2 months ago and now this, does anyone know if the 2 are related at all? I don’t have many of the symptoms of B-12 only the usual tiredness, headaches (which i asummed was down to the iron-deficiency…. I went to doctor to have a blood test for Coelics as i had symptoms for this and the B-12 showed up. Can mouth ulcers and loss of hair be a sign of B-12 then?
I was diagnosed 2 days ago with a B12 deficiency. My level is at 63. I am 29 years old, have been eating paleo for several years now, and have been struggling with many symptoms for quite some time. Anxiety, panic, digestive issues, and fatigue to name a few. I am going to have the doctor test me for IF antibodies and anti-parietal cell antibodies to rule out pernicious anemia, but the doctor said she didn’t think I had an autoimmune condition based on the other lab results. My question is…why else would my B12 levels be SO low? Anything else I should look into? Thank you!
It’s almost certain to be pernicious anemia if it’s that low. Other possibilities could be atrophic gastritis or another functional/inflammatory gut condition.
Hi Tiffany, It’s difficult for the b12 level to get that drastically low without something essentially totally blocking it. However, as the solution is the same, get b12 into yourself and needed cofactors for healing. If you take Enzymatic Therapy B12 infusion, Anabol Dibencoplex (AdoCbl, the mitochondria b12) and L-methylfolate, you will need to taqke potassium as well as your levels will plunge on the third day as cell formation goes into high gear.
Thanks Doc. That was very informative and am sure will change my life for good.
I am a 48yr young vegetarian male in India just diagnosed with B12 & D3 deficiency by my doctor here. My B12 level is 104. He has put me on methylcobalamin both injections for 4 weeks (twice a week) and orally 1 tab daily. I never thought it is so serious. I would have taken it lightly if I hadn’t read this article of yours. Would appreciate some further clarifications.
1. How long do I have to stay on this medication?
2. Can this be treated by one course of medication or will I have to be on this throughout life?
3. The symptom that worries me most is forgetfulness. In fact I won’t be wrong if I could say it seems like the early stages of Dementia. I have trouble recollecting thoughts and find very hard to concentrate on 1 thing. My mind keeps wondering. I understand this B12 deficiency could be the cause. If yes then will be restored once my B12 levels go up or will it remain same but not deteriorate maybe??
4. Is there any vegetarian product which has B12?? I eat eggs and other dairy products.
Would highly appreciate your advise.
I feel strongly that many people are deficient in B vitamins. Factors in our current diets contribute to rob our bodies of B’s. I think that most people would benefit from supplementing. However, believe that it’s best to take a B-Complex supplement – to get the B vitamins closer to the way you would find them in nature – or food. You don’t find isolated vitamins in nature, and reminds me too much of drugs.
Hello All,
As it turns out, after being dx with MS for 4 years, injecting betaseron, having no tests that confirmed the dx, and my MRI, while consistent with MS, was also consistent with normal aging, I also had a brain stem tumor in the mid brain. That was batted around for a bit. Symptoms had been, poor gait, when I bent over, I fell down, vertigo when I would lay down, sensation of tongue becoming thick and causing difficulty in speaking, rare nystamus, hypersensitivity body wide, including sexually and sometimes feeling out of it with the sensations, in a fog. My evoked potentials, normal and he ran no other tests. The brain surgeon dismissed the tumor as probably a hamartoma, which is a growth from birth, non growing by itself and of no consequence. He sent me to his MS colleague for some lesions he saw and said “everyone I send to him has MS”. The MS clinic Dr., who made the MS dx, made it based on the above, started the shots, and while I got better, chances are I would have anyway, had been on topomax for some time and had already gotten better but relayed the symptoms previously had to him. My B12, which he drew but did not tell me about, was 261 dropping to 231, then he skipped a year, then it was down and finally it hit 151, my point being it was too low and it was dropping with no notice by him, a neurologist who knew enough to order the test outside of normal blood work but obviously either did not care or did not read the tests. I could go either way with this as he also was telling me each year the brain tumor was gone, when indeed I have had the displeasure to learn it was not, and also that it is not a hamartoma, or so the surgeon has back pedaled on. I, personally, have no idea what it is, but it is not growing.
To add to this mess, my symptoms were better by the time I came to him as I was already on topomax, that helped me with most of the bodily things. My personal life took a nose dive with a spouse who confessed to living a double life for the past 37 yrs in 2008, lost both breasts to cancer in 2004, father died in 2007, the women my spouse choose were all my friends, etc. I have been emotionally decimated over a short time period. I also closed a thriving investment company, was forced back into corporate America at age 51, with severe cognitive issues, so with all of this I was off kilter.
I am saying all this to say that after I followed Dr. MS to his private practice in 11/10, bells rang and I went back to the clinic where the replacing Dr. told me she doubted very seriouly my dx and went about determining if I had MS, and disproved it. Her philosphy is, you dx MS when you rule everything else out, which he did not. The cognitive issues were correct/helped greatly with B12 injections, (I have had all the required tests for everything discussed here before we go over that, no pern. anemia, gut issues, etc., all levels of the things you check, were checked) I am having a hard time getting my B12 above 400 and will deal with that as I can, I am struggling with so much.
I have been dx with CIDP and have a peripheral neuropathy with absolutely no doubt. I have demylation of my nerves in my legs, thus the numbness in my feet and hands are due to this. And, it is local nerves proven with EMG, not brain as would be the case with MS. My protein count with a lumbar was 123. I have had IVIG, with serious side effects and cannot take them again, and most recently medusol (prednisone), 1000 mgs infused over three days, so that I had 3000 mgs in three days (any of you who have had prednisone, taken the normal 80 mg, dropping down over 10 days, how do you think 1000 mgs, infused over 1 hour, three days in a row made me feel?), and it made me absolutely insane. It has been four weeks tomorrow since my last treatment and I cannot see a benefit from the steroid, but can still taste it in my mouth, so I am reluctant to do that again. I did get a benefit from the IVIG, I had reached the point that I could no longer lift my feet and as a result of IVIG, I can do that now.
The hospital that hired Dr. MS, and forced him to leave due to conflicts in his behavior and protocol, has been deliberating my case as well as several others, to determine damages. They sent my case to four esteemed Dr.s across the country for their opinions, did Dr. MS make a valid dx based on the information gathered or not? Ones opinion comes in tomorrow, two say yes, although my Dr. says that one of those two says he will not say, and one says no, he did not do due diligence. The risk mgmt ppl say, “your numbers were within normal ranges, those being 200-900, while he was here and only dropped below when he left”. Never mind that they were below 300 from the start and dropping and he ignored them. Never mind that I am properly dx with CIDP (chronic inflamatory demyeliating polyneuropathy). CIDP is considered by some to be the chronic form of Guillain Barre if any of you know of that disease, while others say that it has the same effects but is not actually the same disease. However, the end results would be the same were it not treatable or brought under control. I, so far, have not found a treatment that will work for me for the long term and due to the fact that I was not properly dx and treated from the get go, or even when my feet felt like I was wearing socks all the time OCT of 2010, and I reported this to Dr. MS, it goes to another level. I am seemingly progressive with little to no remission. Dr. MS wanted me on Tysabri, and to those who are aware of this medication, it is a wonderful med that is to be used when you have exhausted all other means, it has a fatal side effect and I was not going to do that. All the ppl in his outter office as I waited to see him in private practice were on Tysabri. You make your conclusions. He told me that he could tell I had MS lesions all the way down my spine by looking at a cervical mri, neck only. He told me that a place that he showed me on my MRI that was bright, had a lot of uptate of dye, was MS. It was NOT MS. He was using scare tactics to get me onto tysabri, imo. He was pushing a medication that he told those of us who attended many seminars he gave where he said tysabri was a drug only used as a last resort when all else failed. Yes, there is a test to see if you carry an antibody, and if you do not you cannot get the fatal side effect. You can walk out of the office and be exposed. There is not a shot to keep you from being exposed. It is all BS.
I need to prove to the risk mgmt dept with clear cut, concise material from a source that they will accept that the numbers we use in America are low, that we, in America, are reassessing this number. I need a place to go, a clinicians review area, where they make these rules or whatever you call them, that I can present to this unlearned man in risk mgmt. But, it will have to be something he cannot shoot down. I have the charts from the CDC from 2009 showing the difference they use for age ranges, that helps, but is there a place to go and download some assessment from a group like the CDC or a medical association?
I lost my career, my pension, my retirement stability. I do draw disability from my job, which is decent but I lost my stock options, my life. I worked hard all my life and have little to nothing to show for it, I had to use all that I had, retirement funds, etc, to stay afloat after breast cancer in 2004, until I could go to work when I closed my business. I was working on replenishing my stores and life, and with the improper dx, I lost my hard gained licensure, status and potential. At that time I was 55, you do not keep starting over. If they had properly dx me, treated the B12, I could have continued to work and I would have moved up. Not down. Or out. Now, I cannot augment my income or life, and all so someone could build a clinic. I have no idea if the medication I gave myself will have any effect. I just need help.
Sorry to be so long, I have had permanent damage and there are probably ten or more of us who were improperly treated and dx by this man, and not really knowing the number, it could be many more. The person who called this out to the hospital was the doctor who replaced him, not any of us. She was appalled at the number of patients who were misdx as well as the number of ppl who followed him to private practice and returned saying he was scaring them into tsyrabi. Of course I am not done with this.
I highly recommend the book “Could It Be B12” for all of you that have questions….it is a wealth of information. The author’s website is b12awareness dot o r g
If you have the MTHFD gene, there is a possibility it could lead to pernicious anemia too.