This is an update of an article I published in 2011. I affirm that animal products are among the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat and that vegetarians and vegans are at risk for multiple nutrient deficiencies. I have included up-to-date research and expanded the list of nutrients that are often lacking in vegetarian and vegan diets.
Maybe you have considered going vegetarian or vegan for the health benefits. Or maybe you know someone who feels strongly about it as an ethical choice, and you wonder if they can really follow the diet in a healthy way. I respect these reasons and appreciate anyone who thinks deeply about the social and spiritual impact of their food choices—even if my own exploration of these questions has led me to a different answer.
But many choose a vegetarian diet because they’re under the impression that it’s a healthier choice from a nutritional perspective. It is this last reason that I’d like to address in this article. For the last 50-plus years, we’ve been told that meat, eggs, and animal fats are bad for us and that we’ll live longer and enjoy superior health if we minimize or avoid them. This idea has been so thoroughly drilled into our heads that few people even question it anymore. In fact, if you asked the average person on the street whether a vegetarian or vegan diet is healthier than an omnivorous diet, they’d probably say yes. But is this really true?
If You Want Nutrient-Dense Foods, You Need to Eat Animal Products
Plant-based diets emphasize vegetables, which are quite nutrient dense, and fruits, which are somewhat nutrient dense. They also typically include large amounts of cereal grains (refined and unrefined) and legumes, both of which are low in bioavailable nutrients and high in anti-nutrients like phytate. Most importantly, vegetarian and vegan diets eschew organ meats, other meats, and fish and shellfish, which are among the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat. (1)
Followers of vegetarian and vegan diets, beware: You could be missing out on B12, iron, calcium, and other key nutrients. Is it time to rethink your diet plan and add meat back to your plate? Find out. #nutrientdensefoods #paleocure.
Vegan diets, in particular, are almost completely devoid of certain nutrients that are crucial for physiological function. Deficiencies can take months or years to develop, and many are easily missed because they are not routinely tested for in primary care settings. Several studies have shown that both vegetarians and vegans are prone to deficiencies in:
- Vitamin B12
- Calcium
- Iron
- Zinc
- Long-chain fatty acids EPA and DHA
- Fat-soluble vitamins like A and D
Let’s take a closer look at each of these nutrients.
Vegetarian and Vegan Diets Don’t Provide Enough Vitamin B12
B12 deficiency is especially common in vegetarians and vegans. To properly evaluate B12 status, total serum vitamin B12 isn’t enough. A better marker for vitamin B12 is holotranscobalamin II, the biologically active fragment, which should be measured along with total homocysteine and methylmalonic acid. Low B12 is correlated with low holotranscobalamin II, while homocysteine and methylmalonic acid are usually increased in later stages of vitamin B12 deficiency. (2) The most recent studies using more sensitive techniques for detecting B12 deficiency have found that up to 77 percent of vegetarians and 92 percent of vegans are B12 deficient, compared to just 11 percent of omnivores. (3, 4, 5)
Vitamin B12 works together with folate in the synthesis of DNA and red blood cells. It’s also involved in the production of the myelin sheath around the nerves and the conduction of nerve impulses. B12 deficiency can cause numerous symptoms, including:
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Weakness
- Memory loss
- Neurological and psychiatric problems
- Anemia
- And much more …
It’s a common myth among vegetarians and vegans that it’s possible to get B12 from plant sources like:
- Seaweed
- Fermented soy
- Spirulina
- Brewer’s yeast
These plant foods don’t contain B12. They contain B12 analogs, called cobamides, that block the intake of—and increase the need for—true B12. (6) Researchers have identified purple laver nori (seaweed) as a plant source of bioavailable B12; however, it could contain high levels of cadmium and arsenic. (7, 8, 9, 10) More studies are needed, but there is a potentially serious problem with relying on purple laver nori for adequate B12.
If You’re Vegan, You Might Be Missing out on Calcium
You know that calcium is important for bone health, but did you know it’s essential for muscle and nerve function and that it’s involved in blood clotting? On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products). Vegans, however, are often deficient. (11, 12, 13)
Calcium bioavailability from plant foods is affected by their levels of oxalate and phytate, which are inhibitors of calcium absorption and thus decrease the amount of calcium the body can extract from plant foods. (10) So while leafy greens like spinach and kale have a relatively high calcium content, the calcium is not efficiently absorbed during digestion.
One study suggests that it would take 16 servings of spinach to get the same amount of absorbable calcium as an eight-ounce glass of milk. (14) That would be 33 cups of baby spinach or around five or six cups of cooked spinach. There are a few vegetables listed in this paper that have higher levels of bioavailable calcium, but it’s important to note that all of the vegetables tested required multiple servings to achieve the same amount of usable calcium as one single serving of milk, cheese, or yogurt.
This suggests that trying to meet your daily calcium needs from plant foods alone might not be a great strategy. For those who don’t tolerate dairy well, fish with edible bones like sardines are great sources of calcium on a Paleo diet.
You’re Also More Likely to Be Iron-Deficient on a Plant-Based Diet
Vegetarians and omnivores often have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores. (15, 16) This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency.
For example, this study of 75 vegan women in Germany found that 40 percent of them were iron deficient, despite average iron intakes that were above the recommended daily allowance. (17) Among Australian men, iron intake among vegetarians and vegans was 29 to 49 percent higher than omnivores, but their serum ferritin concentrations were barely half that of omnivores. (18) Despite similar iron intakes, another study published this year showed vegans and female vegetarians having low ferritin levels. (19)
Why would this be? As with calcium, the bioavailability of the iron in plant foods (nonheme iron) is much lower than in animal foods (heme iron). Plant-based forms of iron are also inhibited by other commonly consumed substances, such as:
- Coffee
- Tea
- Dairy products
- Supplemental fiber
- Supplemental calcium
This explains why vegetarian diets have been shown to reduce nonheme iron absorption by 70 percent and total iron absorption by 85 percent. (20, 21)
Red Meat, Fish, and Poultry Are Your Best Sources for Zinc
Zinc is important for the immune system, cell growth, and wound healing. You won’t usually see overt zinc deficiency in Western vegetarians, but their intake often falls below recommendations, probably because red meat, poultry, and fish are the best sources.
This is another case where bioavailability is important; many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption. Vegetarian diets tend to reduce zinc absorption by about 35 percent compared with an omnivorous diet. (22) Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. (23) One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50 percent more zinc than omnivores for this reason. (24) A meta-analysis of 34 studies found that both zinc intakes and serum zinc concentrations were lower in vegetarians than non-vegetarians. (25)
You Might Be Missing out on the Benefits of Essential Fatty Acids
Plant foods do contain linoleic acid (omega-6) and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, omega-3), both of which are considered essential fatty acids. In this context, an essential fatty acid is one that can’t be synthesized by the body and must be obtained in the diet. However, an increasing body of research has highlighted the benefits of the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA. These fatty acids play a protective and therapeutic role in a wide range of diseases: (26, 27)
- Cancer
- Asthma
- Depression
- Alzheimer’s disease
- Cardiovascular disease
- ADHD
- Autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis
While it is possible for some ALA from plant foods to be converted into EPA and DHA, that conversion is poor in humans: between 5 and 10 percent for EPA and 2 and 5 percent for DHA. (28)
Although no official recommendation exists, the daily suggested intake of combined DHA and EPA is around 250 to 500 mg. In theory, this means vegans and vegetarians would need to consume between five and 12.5 grams of ALA per day to obtain 250 mg of DHA. In reality, vegetarians and vegans consume merely 0.97 g/day and 0.86 g/day of ALA, respectively, according to a study of over 14,000 Americans. (29)
Vegetarians have 30 percent lower levels of EPA and DHA than omnivores, while vegans have 50 percent lower EPA and nearly 60 percent lower DHA. (30, 31) Moreover, the conversion of ALA to DHA depends on zinc, iron, selenium, and pyridoxine—nutrients that vegetarians and vegans are less likely than omnivores to get enough of. (32, 33, 34, 35) Eating 12 to 16 ounces of cold-water fatty fish per week remains the best way to get adequate EPA and DHA. The fish will also provide bioavailable protein and selenium.
Vitamins A and D: What You’re Missing
Fat-soluble vitamins play numerous and critical roles in human health. Vitamin A promotes healthy immune function, fertility, eyesight, and skin. Vitamin D regulates calcium metabolism, regulates immune function, reduces inflammation, and protects against some forms of cancer.
These important fat-soluble vitamins are concentrated, and in some cases found almost exclusively, in animal foods like:
- Seafood
- Organ meats
- Eggs
- Dairy products
Some obscure species of mushrooms can provide large amounts of vitamin D, but these mushrooms are rarely consumed and often difficult to obtain. This explains why vitamin D levels are often low in vegetarians and even lower in vegans. (36, 37, 38, 39)
The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient. (40, 41) For example, a single serving of liver per week would meet the RDA of 3,000 IU. To get the same amount from plant foods, you’d have to eat two cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes, or two cups of kale every day.
Moreover, traditional cultures consumed up to 10 times the current RDA for vitamin A. It would be nearly impossible to get this amount of vitamin A from plant foods without juicing or taking supplements. And if supplements aren’t consumed with a fatty meal, the actual absorption will be low. (42)
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Vegans and Vegetarians, You Could Be Missing These Key Nutrients
If you don’t eat meat or other animal products, you could also be missing out on:
- Choline
- Creatine
- Taurine
- Methionine
- Glycine
- Selenium
Choline
Vegetarian and vegan diets, along with the Standard American Diet, pose risks of choline deficiency. (43) Choline is required for:
- Healthy cell membrane function
- Methylation
- Cognitive development in children
It’s so important that the FDA recently set a daily recommended intake of 550 mg for men and 425 mg for women, which should increase to 450 mg during pregnancy and 550 mg during breastfeeding. Recent research suggests that only 8.5 percent of women meet the daily choline requirement. (44) With egg yolks and organ meats as the most potent sources of choline, it’s not surprising that even omnivores are not getting enough. This is another reason I encourage giving organ meat dishes another try.
Creatine
Creatine plasma and muscle levels are usually lower in vegetarians than in omnivores, as meat provides the richest source of creatine. (45) Creatine may play an important role in cognitive function. A randomized controlled trial found that six weeks of oral creatine supplementation significantly improved vegetarians’ performance on tests of fluid intelligence and working memory. The difference in scores between groups was enormous. (46)
Another study found that creatine supplementation in vegetarians improved memory, while having no effect on fluid intelligence or working memory in meat-eaters. (47) These results suggest that vegetarians’ baseline scores may have been impaired due to low creatine intake.
Taurine
Taurine has a central role as a neurotransmitter, promotes the development of the central nervous system, and upholds the structure of cell membranes. Although the body can synthesize small amounts of taurine, vegetarians and vegans often still have low plasma and urinary taurine levels because taurine is found primarily in animal products. (48, 49) Low plasma taurine in newborns is associated with lower scores on mental development and arithmetic tests at age seven, suggesting that dietary taurine aids in neural development. (50)
Methionine
Methionine is another amino acid that is restricted on a plant-based diet. Low methionine intake has been linked to longevity in scientific research. However, methionine is still an essential amino acid, and too little methionine may impair detoxification and reduce fertility. (51, 52) After being activated using ATP, methionine becomes the universal methyl donor.
On the flip side, too much methionine can also pose problems. After methyl donation, methionine becomes homocysteine and must be recycled back to methionine by B12, folate, or betaine (derived from choline). Because meat is high in methionine, diets heavy in muscle meats but low in connective tissues can result in increased homocysteine levels, a risk factor for CVD.
That said, studies have shown that vegetarians and vegans have significantly higher homocysteine levels on average than omnivores. (53) In one study, the average homocysteine level among vegetarians was 13.9 nmol/L and among vegans, 16.4 nmol/L, compared to 11.3 nmol/L for omnivores. (54) This puts most vegetarians and vegans in a range that carries significant risk of CVD. In fact, according to one study, the prevalence of hyperhomocysteinemia among vegetarians may actually be higher than that among non-vegetarians already diagnosed with heart disease. (55)
Glycine
Vegetarians and vegans don’t consume as much glycine as meat-eaters, as the richest sources are the “odd bits” of animal foods, like: (56)
- Skin
- Bones
- Collagen
- Gelatin
Glycine is one of the building blocks of collagen, found in our connective tissues. In addition to its structural role, glycine can also act as a neurotransmitter, plays a role in blood sugar regulation, and stimulates the production of glutathione, the body’s master antioxidant. (57, 58, 59, 60)
Some Paleo dieters can be susceptible to low glycine intake, too, if they are eating tons of muscle meat and ignoring the “nose-to-tail” philosophy. Glycine helps balance out methionine levels, in part by acting as a buffer for excess methyl groups. Low choline and glycine intake, common in vegetarians and vegans, can further contribute to high homocysteine levels and increased risk of CVD. Eating bone broth regularly can help balance glycine/methionine levels.
Selenium
While a few studies show no difference in selenium status among diet types, most research shows lower intake and/or levels in vegetarians and vegans compared to omnivores, including one study that measured glutathione peroxidase, a selenium-dependent enzyme and an excellent marker of active selenium status. (61, 62, 63, 64) Selenium has a role in immune function, supports thyroid hormone synthesis, and protects the thyroid from excess iodine damage. (65, 66) Selenium also helps prevent mercury toxicity. (67)
Selenium deficiency is also common in those with digestive health issues like Crohn’s disease or celiac disease. (68, 69) The best sources of selenium include:
- Brazil nuts
- Crimini mushrooms
- Some sea foods
- Chicken
- Eggs
- Lamb
- Turkey
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Eating Animal Products Could Also Help Your Thyroid Health
Thyroid hormone synthesis requires iodine, a nutrient that can be lacking from omnivore and plant-based diets alike. Most iodine comes from the sea; the soil—and therefore vegetables grown in soil—usually contains very little. In a typical mixed diet, the highest sources of iodine are iodized salt and animal products like:
- Dairy products
- Eggs
- Seafood
Vegetarians and vegans are at risk for low iodine intake. (70)
In the Boston area, urinary iodine levels in vegans were barely half that of vegetarians, and vegans were at high risk of iodine deficiency. (71) Several studies of Scandinavian populations confirm that vegans finished last in iodine intake and/or urinary iodine levels. (72, 73, 74) To make matters worse, isoflavones found in soy products, which are sometimes consumed in large quantities in vegan and vegetarian diets, may exacerbate iodine deficiency and hypothyroidism. (75)
But even those following a Paleo template can be at risk for iodine deficiency if they are not regularly consuming seafood. (76) Sea vegetables, especially kelp, are the highest sources of iodine ounce for ounce.
Your Kids Need Nutrient-Dense Foods to Thrive
Because of the prevailing idea in our culture that vegetarian and vegan diets are healthy, more and more children are being raised from birth (and even from conception!) on meat-free diets. Both the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (AND) and USDA have said that vegetarian and vegan diets are safe during pregnancy, but critical analyses by several researchers have questioned whether these recommendations are based on sufficient evidence. One review remarked that “the evidence on vegan–vegetarian diets in pregnancy is heterogeneous and scant,” suggesting that more research is needed to answer the question of whether they are, in fact, safe during pregnancy. (77)
Vegetarian and vegan diets for children carry significant risks of nutrient deficiencies that can have dire health consequences. (78, 79, 80)
Studies have shown that kids raised until age six on a vegan diet are still B12 deficient years after adding at least some animal products to their diet. One study found an association between B12 status and measures of intelligence and memory, with formerly vegan kids scoring lower than omnivorous kids. (81) Devastating case studies have reported B12 deficiency in young vegan children that have led to neurological damage and developmental delays. (82, 83)
Low nutrient intake extends beyond vitamin B12. Other case studies have attributed hypothyroidism in young children to a maternal and/or childhood vegan diet. (84, 85) Compared to omnivores, breast milk from vegan mothers had lower levels of DHA and EPA, which are vital for brain development, especially in the first year of life, when a baby’s brain literally doubles in size. (83) In short, just like adults, children on vegetarian and vegan diets often have lower intakes of iron, iodine, vitamin A, zinc, and more.
Your Best Choice for Optimal Nutrition Isn’t a Vegetarian or Vegan Diet, but a Paleo Template
With care and attention, I think it’s possible to meet most of your nutrient needs with a vegetarian diet that includes liberal amounts of pasture-raised, full-fat dairy and eggs, with one exception: EPA and DHA. These long-chain omega fats are found exclusively in marine algae and fish and shellfish, so the only way to get them on a vegetarian diet would be to take a microalgae supplement or bend the rules and take fish oil or cod liver oil as a supplement. (86) Still, while it may be possible to obtain adequate nutrition on a vegetarian diet, it is not optimal—as the research above indicates.
I don’t think it’s possible to meet nutrient needs on a vegan diet without supplements—and quite a few of them. Vegan diets are low in:
- B12
- Bioavailable iron and zinc
- Choline
- Vitamins A and D
- Calcium
- EPA and DHA
It’s worth pointing out that there are genetic differences that affect the conversion of certain nutrient precursors (like beta-carotene and alpha-linolenic acid) into the active forms of those nutrients (like retinol and EPA and DHA, respectively), and these differences may affect how long someone will be able to follow a vegetarian or vegan diet before they develop nutrient deficiencies. This explains why some people seem to do well for years on these diets, while others develop problems very quickly.
Is It Time to Rethink Your Diet?
From an evolutionary perspective, is difficult to justify a diet with low levels of several nutrients critical to human function. While it may be possible to address these shortcomings through targeted supplementation (an issue that is still debated), it makes far more sense to meet your nutritional needs from food.
This is especially important for children, who are still developing and are even more sensitive to suboptimal intake of the nutrients discussed in this article. Like all parents, vegetarians and vegans want the best for their children. Unfortunately, many are not aware of the potential for nutrient deficiencies posed by their dietary choices.
I hope this article can serve as a resource for anyone on a plant-based diet, whether they choose to start eating meat (or animal products, in the case of vegans) again or not.
I could really go for a big thick juicy red meat steak right now. mmm….
There always seems to be at least one inane, unfunny and completely useless comment like this one in any discussion that mentions vegans. How original of you.
The author may wish to use current research. A balanced vegan diet will promote a thriving human. The key is balanced. This is true for any diet. A little training may be required as a balanced diet is not the old diet minus animal products. A balance diet does not require a load of grains. This article is a good source of examples of debate tricks to win an argument with out relevant facts.
I totally agree with Michaelb. For years I’m improved my “balanced” vegan diet with plant based foods and supplements, and feel I’m in excellent health for a 63 year old! Almost daily saunas help tremendously with detoxing! Not to mention…what an enjoyable way to detox!!
I have horses and dogs. They both need and eat protein. My horses eat grass and hay (plant protein). They have many side to side grinding molars, a digestive process called hind-gut fermentation, a large cecum (like your appendix) that is attached to their large intestines with tons of strong bacteria, in order to utilize plant protein. My dogs chew with a chopping action, have a very short digestive system, way more potent stomach acids. In summary completely different animals and I think humans are in between. Plant protein and animal protein require very different systems in order to be utilized.
Humans have the most in common physiologically and anatomically with frugivores (which includes other primates), whose diets primarily consist of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds, but who also have the capability to digest other foods.
Except that Frugivores get most of their actual energy by converting the carbohydrates to short chain fats. Humans can’t do this efficiently enough.
If a human eats that amount of fruit they get most of the energy from sugar and don’t get enough fat.
Fat is much more important to humans without the digestive systems that facilitate this conversion.
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/should-all-animals-eat-a-high-fat-low-carb-diet.html#.VNkFZy5wu3F
None of the animals on the list of Herbivores get the majority of their energy from carbohydrates like we do if we eat like that.
Sorry, but this just sounds like anti-vegan BS. I’ve been a vegan for over 15 years, and at age 55 my doctor tells me that I have the heart and physique of a 29-year-old. I run marathons regularly, and usually finish in the top 10%. My weight and blood pressure are now ideal, and I am literally in the best shape of my life.
It’s entirely possible to feel OK and still be lacking on some important health metrics. For example, I never felt a vitamin D deficiency. Running marathons can be fun, but it’s strength training that stimulates mitochondrial growth – did your doctor tell you anything about that?
There are many aspects of health. Being pro or anti-vegan isn’t really nearly as important as being pro-health, regardless of dietary philosophy.
Hello!
My point was that, contrary to the article’s claims, a vegan diet can be entirely healthy. Obviously ANY diet can be unhealthy if it’s not done correctly.
And thank you for your concern–but I have NO vitamin deficiencies. And while I don’t concentrate on strength training myself, I have plenty of vegan friends that do. 🙂
This article is really the biggest piece of rubbish and BS that I have seen for a long time. The writer has no knowledge or clue of what they are talking about. If we follow a PROPER vegan diet as so many of us do, we are doing what is best for our health, the environment and the animals (who are violently and barbarically mistreated and all for nothing). I really can’t stand it when ignorance is so obvious as in this article.
You are incorrect. The author is a Chinese medicine Dr. which has thousands of years of understanding of the medicinal quality of food. In Chinese medicine we need animal products to nourish certain aspects in order to maintain balance in the body. Veganism is a new fad and as humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years – there is no sustainable culture on earth that is vegan. Woman who are are vegan diets have a hard time reproducing and people who may stay on a vegan diet will find that aging (past their 50s ) will be very difficult.
Your claim about reproductive difficulties while vegan is unsubstantiated. There is no effect on fertility with adequate calories and healthful, plant-based fats. In fact, the higher intake of folate in the diet by most vegans helps prevent neurological birth defects.
The claim about vegans finding aging past their 50s “difficult” is ludicrous. Vegans have lower rates of heart disease, diabetes, and obesity than meat eaters or vegetarians. In my mid-50s, I am the only vegan in my family of origin, and also happen to be the only adult who isn’t on prescription medications, such as statins and blood-pressure reducers. Google Ellsworth Wareham, M.D., centenarian vegan who retired from working as a heart surgeon in his 90s. He’s profiled in the book Blue Zones. Then there’s Donald Watson, the Englishman who coined the term “vegan.” He became vegan in the 1940s and died in 2005 after an active and healthy life at the age of 95. And Ruth Heidrich, who switched to a vegan diet in 1982, when she was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. She is now a 79-year-old motivational speaker, eight-time senior Olympic gold medalist, and six-time Ironman triathlon finisher.
Layla, I am also a Chinese Medicine Dr AND vegan.
I agree with Suzy & Judy. He needs to look at more up to date research and get his facts straight.
TCM also promotes some animal products which are endangered species, which most western practitioners do not use for ethical reasons. In the same way, an ethical diet/lifestyle like veganism can be amazing for you, like any diet done correctly, without harming anyone.
In 1993, when I was 50, I was diagnosed with myasthenia gravis and multiple sclerosis and had high cholesteral. I was told I might not be able to go back to work and that I would likely be dead in another 10 or 12 years. Coincidently, I started going vegetarian during that year. Instead of getting worse, I began to very slowly improve. I returned to work within the year. Seven years ago, I dropped dairy – became vegan. Three years ago, my doctor told me that Myasthenia and MS were “no longer problems” for me. I am now a 73 year old who shares barn cleaning and animal feeding chores for 100 alpacas with my husband. I can sling 60 pound bales of hay and carry 40 pound bags of pellets with no problem. I am active in the fiber arts world working with my animals’ fleece. I am in good physical shape and told I look younger than my years. I do not have aches and pains that most of my friends my age complain about and have loads of energy. For me, eating a whole foods plant based diet works. I don’t eat refined carbs or junk food or soda and I do supplement B12, D and omega 3’s. On the other hand, my husband eats meat (and more refined food than I’d like to see him eat) and he’s pretty healthy, too, though he has aches and pains and his energy level is lower than mine.
Vegan has grown into a fad diet in the recent years, and I am glad someone finally speaks about the real risks of such behaviours.
Yeah eating a diet that is beneficial to the environments/oceans/rainforests/wildlife/starving children(grain grown in poor nations is sold to affluent nations to fatten up your beef) is such a fad. I mean doing good for the planet is pointless, it doesn’t benefit you at all! You have to give up steak,milk,eggs,cheese…I mean if I want to eat these foods at the expense of the planet let me! (obvious sarcasm)
Nope it’s not always beneficial
It’s really not that difficult to switch to a vegetarian or vegan diet provided you can experience the benefits or ROI. The physical and mental benefits of switching from a meat based diet become more obvious when you also change your lifestyle routines. Incorporating new fun physical and mental activities, ones that you may have left behind years ago when professional commitments started to become top priority. By bringing back the fun physical and mental things you did when you were younger you will see how a more healthy body and mind can regain its lost flexibility, spirited love of life and adventure. A plant based diet can help you get there. Peter Sabbagh | Founder http://www.thinkmatcha.com/
I’ve been a Vegetarian (with minimal dairy) for about a year and haven’t felt better. I do take a daily multivitamin but I’ve grown accustomed to cooking my own meals 95% of the time and heave become a better cook and saved money because of it.
In all honesty you could drink a Red Bull for a bit over a dollar a day and cover your B12 deficiency and then some by a large margin so that’s a silly point. Then again I hate coffee and can tolerate energy drinks so I may be bias. And soy milk is very nutrient dense as well…
The only reason I’m not a 100% vegan is because my family insists on eating out every couple of months and I end up eating cheese now and then due to that.
Still, I’m doing great, I have biceps that are larger than most meat eaters yet weigh quite a bit less and am faster. There are benefits to plant protein over laggy but more dense meat protein.
I hated Tofu at first but as time went on it’s my go-to additive to soups and I love it.
If you are’t 100% vegan then you aren’t vegan… you don’t get an 84% vegan… you either are or aren’t
He didn’t say he was vegan, he said he was vegetarian. duh
Soy Milk? Get with it, it’s 2015 for christ sake! No one uses soy milk any more, it’s not good for you and it’s all GMO crap! Switch to organic unsweetened almond, cashew or hemp milk!
I don’t think you’ve looked at a carton of soy milk in recent years. They’re all nonGMO, as are tofu, tempeh, even most soy ice cream. Yes, most soy grown in the U.S. is GMO, but it’s mostly used for animal feed, soybean oil, and biofuel, not for soy milk, tofu, etc..
…and if you are depending on cow’s milk for calcium, you might as well be popping a supplement. That is how present-day cow’s milk gets its calcium. It is fortified.
Facts are in regarding Red Meat, it is not native to the Human Diet because it contains a chemical that’s unnatural to human biology, a sugar molecule called Neu5Gc from those meats gets fully incorporated into human tissue. The immune system then attacks that substance, leading to tissue inflammation and a higher lifetime risk of cancer.
The same process also could happen when people consume whole milk, certain cheeses and caviar, which consists of fish eggs. (Fish can produce Neu5Gc, but they store it in their eggs and not their fleshy muscles.)
Steve; A Study about Cancer among the Inuit
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2008/07/cancer-among-inuit.html?showComment=1215236520000
It is also common knowledge that a carnivorous people such as the Inuit, that Diabetes was unknown, until our government forced them off the land into government housing in villages sometimes hundreds of miles away from their traditional hunter-gatherer areas. The Anti-Fur Movement also destroyed their economic mainstay, diminishing their ability in acquiring traditional meats such as seal, polar bear etc. Once transitioned to wheat, sugar, HFCS in Soda’s their Lower Limb Amputation rate from Diabetic Neuropathy is 3 X that of Southerners. They are a perfect example of interference by know-it-alls re: traditional diets.
They are not a good example! They represent an edge case, living very different lives in a very different environment. Their average life span is 48, and so should not be considered as a model for most Western diseases which usually develop at a later age. Wheat, sugar and HFCS do not belong in a vegan diet – they do not belong in any diet! Refined food in an Innuit diet maks for a bad argument against veganism.
If anything, they are a good example of how Western cultures wreak havoc on indigenous cultures by spoiling their environment and feeding them processed food. Their existence adds nothing to the meat Vs plant debate. Same goes for the Massai. Leave them in peace!
Did you actually read the article along with his follow up article. He addresses those very issues.
Facts are in regarding Red Meat, it is not native to the Human Diet because it contains a chemical that’s unnatural to human biology, a sugar molecule called Neu5Gc from those meats gets fully incorporated into human tissue. The immune system then attacks that substance, leading to tissue inflammation and a higher lifetime risk of cancer.
The same process also could happen when people consume whole milk, certain cheeses and caviar, which consists of fish eggs. (Fish can produce Neu5Gc, but they store it in their eggs and not their fleshy muscles.) http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-12-29-sugar-molecule-in-red-meat-linked-to-cancer.aspx http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/12/25/1417508112.abstract http://www.techtimes.com/articles/23745/20141230/neu5gc-sugar-molecule-in-red-meat-that-causes-cancer-in-humans.htm http://carta.anthropogeny.org/moca/topics/n-glycolylneuraminic-acid-expression http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/dec/29/red-meat-cancer-varki-neu5Gc-sialic/ http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-12-29-sugar-molecule-in-red-meat-linked-to-cancer.aspx As for nutritional levels, I have been monitored by some of the best medical professionals in the country, and my nutrition levels are superior, and I m a vegan for over 8 years.
Sam –
The Vegetarian Health Institute, founder Trevor Justice, is a great place to get simple clear answers to everything that people get hung up on – protein, how to get more iron, the truth about soy, Vitamin D, B-12, dairy and replacements, everything – SIMPLE AND CLEAR. He uses a Dr. Michael Klaper as a source and you can go directly to his website I’m sure as well, although Trevor’s site contains about 40 hour long recordings of conversations with Dr. Klaper about every topic vegans would want to master. Rita Marie Loscalzo is also a solid source. You can google her. There are recordings of her as well on Trevor Justice’s site. I’m pursuing a certificate in Vegan mastery he offers because I need the CEU’s to renew my massage license but I think you can access his information very inexpensively if you don’t want to earn certification, or even review it for a short time for free.
Hello! I’ll start this by saying I’m a vegan and am not about to change that, so please refrain from telling me to eat animal products. I have a question for anyone who knows enough to answer it. This article suggests that it is possible to supplement a vegan diet to meet human nutritional needs, but does anyone know what is adequate? Do I need to be taking each supplement everyday or is a multivitamin that contains everything and then a supplement for DHA adequate? I’ve been a vegan for seven years and a vegetarian for twenty (I’m 25) and don’t seem to be experiencing any negative side effects, but I’d rather not wait until I do to fix it.
I just want to mention one thing. Watch out for vitamins. Many types of vitamins do not use the right type of vitamins (like your vitamin A should be beta-carotene). One doctor mentioned about patients. When he did a colonoscopy, that he saw vitamins that were still as intact as if the patient had just taken it. Don’t ever take vitamins from a pharmacy or grocery store. Everything that I have read in articles for years says that vitamins from grocery stores or even those from pharmacies are not any good. The type of magnesium in a lot of vitamins is no good. Watch out for this because a lot of the vegetables that you should get magnesium from, you probably do not. Farmers don’t like to pay extra money if they don’t have to, and the soil used over many years has been depleted of magnesium, but why should a farmer care about adding more into the soil if his plants look just as pretty without it. I bought magnesium malate (by itself) individually and other types that are also good are magnesium citrate, taurate, glycinate, chloride, and carbonate. The worst kinds are magnesium oxide, sulfate, glutamate and aspartate. Magnesium is very necessary for a lot of functions but for me the lack of it kept my body from absorbing calcium. It can also cause lower back pain (just the lower back) After I had a magnesium drip (sit for an hour and be attached to an IV while magnesium slowly went into my body) and the next day my lower back pain was gone. Magnesium is necessary for protein synthesis, muscle and nerve function, blood glucose control, and blood pressure regulation [1-3]. Magnesium is required for energy production, oxidative phosphorylation, and glycolysis. It contributes to the structural development of bone and is required for the synthesis of DNA, RNA, and the antioxidant glutathione. Magnesium also plays a role in the active transport of calcium and potassium ions across cell membranes, a process that is important to nerve impulse conduction, muscle contraction, and normal heart rhythm.
Brands I have found that I think are good include the Bluebonnet brand. Bluebonnet Super Earth Multi-Nutrient Supplement works very well on me except they have the wrong type of magnesium. I am very disappointed in that item but the other ingredients make up for it. I take a magnesium malate (also known as Malic Acid) supplement. It’s suppose to be the best for people who have fibromyalgia. One way to see how you body is doing is to have a hair analysis. Analytical Research Labs is the place my doctor sent the sample to and it looked very accurate. I knew my husband had lead poisoning and aluminum poison before he had the test done. The test said he did have toxic levels of those metals plus more. The vitamin and mineral content are really accurate because it can tell over a large period what is in your body and not just what is in you blood at that given moment. It will also tell you if you have any toxic metals in your body. One other way to see if your vitamin is working is to look at your toes. If the nails don’t look pretty than you need vitamins or go to the doctor. Nail abnormalities often indicate an underlying medical condition or a deficiency in certain vitamins and minerals. Warning signs to look out for include yellow nail discoloration, nail splitting, crumbling nails, nail cracking, black fingernails (if you hit your toes on something it can just be a blood blister) , ridges on nails, white spots on fingernails and if the nails start looking like a scoop (nails turning up on the edges) and if your toe nails get thick and white. When I forget to take my vitamins some of these occur. When I get back on my Bluebonnet vitamins all of these signs stop. That is one of the reasons I believe that the BB Super Earth MultiNutrient Supplement is a quality multivitamin and multi-mineral plus enzymes, amino acids and herbs, plus more. To find this brand you need to go to a health food store or on the internet. I just wanted to tell you about the vitamins and magnesium is one of the most important.
Sorry, I forgot something else. I believe that anyone would like to avoid GMO foods (foods where a vegetable (or whatever) is genetically crossed with the herbicide Roundup). Monsanto is the largest producer of GMO seeds (they also made DDT, PCB, Agent Orange, nuclear weapons, Polystyrene, Dioxins (most toxic products on the earth), Petroleum-Based Fertilizers (kills beneficial microorganisms, sterilizes the soil), Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH), These make the cows fatter and us too. Unfortunately they can make the animals so heavy that some cannot standup, they are just to heavy for their legs to support. That definitely will help the animals, if you do not buy milk or buy milk with no antibiotics or hormones. Monsanto also makes the herbicide Roundup that is a Glyphosate. Glyphosate herbicides were quickly adopted by farmers enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops. (GMOs) They can drench their crops with Roundup and it will kill the weeds but not the GMO crops. Scary! Now we have superweeds, that are resistant to Roundup. Roundup has almost succeeded is wiping out all the milkweed in the U.S. and it is the sole food of Monarch Butterflies. Needless to say they have almost wiped out the Monarch Butterflies as well. Monsanto also produces aspartame. (bad stuff) It gives, a large amount of people, splitting headaches, like me. GMO foods are nothing like crossbreeding, they will not solve world hunger, just as much pesticides are used on GMO foods as other crops. Monsanto’s GMO food is crossed with the herbicide Roundup, not any pesticides, so they have to be sprayed just like other regular crops, and yes they have been proven to be dangerous when tested by real independent studies, (not studies in the U.S. that are in one way or the other controlled by Monsanto), that is why the E.U., Russia, China, and Australia refuse to import them into their countries. You cannot believe what the F.D.A. says about GMOs. They say they are safe. Well of course they do, maybe because President Obama appointed Mr. Michael Taylor, former vice-president of Monsanto, as head counsel to the F.D.A.
Crops that are GMOs include soybeans, sugar beets, (if you want non-gmo sugar buy cane sugar) potatoes, corn, tomatoes, squash, golden rice, Rapeseed/Canola, salmon, animal feeds and cotton. This means that corn oil, canola oil, and cottonseed oil are GMOs. Cottonseed oil is even worse. Cotton is not considered a food crop so more toxic pesticides and the frequency of their use makes cottonseed oil very toxic. There are a few GMO crops made by other companies. These are where a vegetable or fruit is genetically crossed with another vegetable or fruit. I don’t know if these are really toxic but many scientist say they are. It’s just so obvious that those made by Monsanto (almost all of them) are dangerous since they are crossed with the most toxic herbicide there is. Almost all processed foods have GMO foods in them. Try to avoid processed foods. At this very moment there is no GMO wheat or oat crops. You just have to shop knowing what is a GMO food and you only know by reading ingredients. If it has something like corn or soy you can be sure that it is GMO, unless it says NON-GMO. If a manufacture makes a product without GMO ingredients, they will label it as such, because that’s what people are looking for. General Mills touts that the regular cheerios has no GMO. Well think about what that means. It means that all of their other products are GMOs.
I just wanted to mention the GMO crops so anyone vegan, vegetarian, or omnivores can avoid these crops. That is another way to be healthy.
In my opinion, the average meat eater would eat far more GMO soy etc than your average vegan. They indirectly eat it through all the animals and animal products that they eat!
GMO crops do not genetically cross the organism with the herbicide RoundUp. GMO crops use genetic manipulation, inserting the genetic material from an unrelated species into a base species, to make the base speices resistant to glyphosate, the active herbicide in RoundUp, or to achieve some other characteristic. Despite what some GMO supporters will tell you, this is NOT in any way like the traditional selective breeding of various strains of plants. That inherent difference is, in fact, the basis of the patents held by Monsanto and other GMO manufacturers. Often, the inserted genetic material is not just from a different species, but can be from a completely different classifying Kingdom. For example, animal material is inserted into a plant. Which brings up an interesting conundrum for vegans that might consume GMO plant crops.
Sam, here’s the thing – some deficiencies aren’t felt until you’re in really bad shape. The body can store some nutrients for a long time and is really good about preserving itself.
The liver is basically a nutrient “warehouse.” If you’re not getting enough from your diet, your liver (and to some extent your gut bacteria) have to make up the difference.
In some cases, if you’re deficient, it can cause serious health problems. You might also impair your immune system, e.g. decrease WBC count and specifically neutrophils.
For example, take choline. If you’re not eating egg yolks or animal liver, you do not have a significant dietary source of choline. If you happen to be one of the many, many people who are inefficient at producing your own choline, and *if* you become truly deficient in it, you’re going to suffer some nasty health problems eventually.
One of those problems, according to some research, is non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. But, it can also contribute to other problems, possibly elevated lipid levels (cholesterol). When you’re deficient in choline, the body taps folate reserves to make up the difference. Then, you run the risk of developing a folate deficiency, and you don’t want that either. The folate deficiency causes other problems…
In your 20s, you’ll probably be fine. After 30, your body doesn’t start bouncing back from the abuse (lack of nutrition) quite as easily.
It’s hard to say, without expensive testing, what you need in pill form, because that’s not how the body works.
To continue the choline example, your need for it depends on how much your body makes on its own, how efficient you are at methylation, and a few other things. Those other things are, in turn, dependent on other nutrients you get from, wait for it, diet.
…and that is just one nutrient. Pretty much all nutrients in your body work that way. Their need depends on several factors, and many nutrients are synergistic with, or antagonistic to, other nutrients.
So, it really *starts* with diet. You *can* supplement if you confirm a deficiency in something, but you also need to know why you’re deficient so you can correct that deficiency with food, if possible. Food is an uncomplicated solution. Supplements are a complex engineered solution that can sometimes cause more problems than they solve.
Throwing pills at a deficiency that’s easily made up with food is also kind of nonsensical, IMO, because of the logistics of micromanaging single/isolated nutrients. In other words, you can’t shoe-horn supplements into a dietary framework that’s lacking the fundamentals, like animal protein. Well, you can, technically, but it’s probably not a great idea.
I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but biology is pretty complex and that’s just the way it is.
Actually, there are many common plant-based foods that are good sources of choline: bananas, oranges, oats, wheat, nuts, tofu, apples, dates…and many more. If one consumes a wide range of plant foods, one is assured of getting plenty of choline.
Folate deficiency is extremely unlikely for individuals on a plant-based diet, because it’s found in abundance in legumes, greens, and seeds. According to the recent EPIC-Oxford study, vegans have higher circulating levels of folate than either vegetarians or omnivores.
Oi. This is the difference between someone who knows what they’re talking about and someone who’s just talking out their ass because they are trying to shoehorn a diet into a moral/philosophical framework.
I really don’t want to hammer on anyone’s personal lifestyle choices. And, at the same time, there are facts that can’t be ignored – like the fact that fruits and vegetables do not contain significant amounts of choline per 100g.
I eat a LOT of veggies every day. Vegetarians are often surprised by the amount of foliage I eat. 6-8 cups of veggies a lot. On paper, I get a lot of folate – more than should be necessary. And, while a randomized double-blind study is cool and all, when I did an RBC micronutrient analysis on my own blood, both folate and choline was low.
Please don’t spread your confusions about dietary sufficiency. It really is complex. I promise. I’m not just making this up.
Choline sufficiency is also not strictly diet-dependent. You can be deficient in nutrients due to poor absorption, altered gut ecology, but also because of impaired methylation and stress.
If you are truly deficient in choline, and you’re looking for nutrient-dense options for repletion, liver and egg yolks are, by far, the highest (and most practical).
So, while I’m not against people eating fruits and vegetables, let’s be honest. They’re poor sources of choline. Yes, there are minuscule amounts of the nutrient in there, but you don’t typically eat them if you’re concerned about maintaining adequate dietary intake (if that’s really a concern for you) for the same reasons you wouldn’t eat watermelon for iron if you’re anemic (and then tell people that watermelon has iron in it so don’t worry about iron intake).
If you’re not concerned about your health, that’s fine. No one is holding a gun to anybody’s head here. But, if you are, I think people really need to put down their philosophical guns and adopt a policy of reason and practicality.
Interesting. I’ve been a vegan my entire life (I’m 43), and on your recommendation just had an RBC micronutrient analysis done on my blood. Both folate and choline were fine. In fact, everything was fine. If you want, I could post the complete lab results along with my doctor’s positive comments.
Hey if you’re happy with your diet, have at it. I’m just relaying my personal experience.
It is interesting that you received your lab results back so quickly.
SpectraCell holds some kind of patent on their micronutrient testing, and my experience is that it takes at least 3 weeks to get the results back. So, even if you took the test the same day I posted my reply, you’d probably still be waiting for results.
So, I guess that’s really impressive speed on the analysis, given that the lab somehow got the test done in under 3 weeks, you were able to schedule a followup with your doctor, he was able to comment on your labs, and you have the sheet ready to upload.
huh. Maybe I need to switch doctors and get in on this fast-track lab work.
Sorry, but if you’re insinuating that I’m lying you are way out of line. The lab results took roughly 2 weeks. My insurance is Kaiser, and they posted my results online via their (password protected) website. I had no reason to question the amount of time it took to get the results, and frankly the few days difference that you’re making such a big deal about seems insignificant and petty.
Since it seems that you are more interested in starting arguments than having a serious discussion I have no further interest in corresponding with you. Please troll somewhere else.
Wow, you are something else, assuming that I’m “shoehorning a diet into a moral/philosophical framework.” As it happens, I went 100% plant-based over a decade ago for health reasons. It was either that or be put on a statin, which my internist recommended. My health improved substantially in many respects as a result of going plant-based, and I haven’t for a moment regretted my decision. Since that time, I have learned more about animal agriculture and its inhumane practices both toward animals and human workers as well as its negative effects on the environment, all of which further confirm my decision.
I also don’t appreciate being told I’m “talking out my ass” regarding nutrition. I’ve taken numerous college-level nutrition courses and have completed Cornell’s certificate program in plant-based nutrition. I’ve read over a hundred books on the subject and participated in nutrition conferences and seminars.
Sure, you can get more iron from beef and more choline from an egg than from any one plant food, but so what? The negatives from consuming them outweigh the positives. You can get all you need of those nutrients and others, and in a more healthful manner, by consuming a wide variety of unprocessed plant foods.
Your condescending attitude, not only to me, but also to Lisa Z, is astounding and counterproductive to your aim, which I gather is to convince others of your own questionable opinions.
B-12 is the only vitamin that’s essential for vegans to take. It’s also good to take vegan D3 if your lifestyle or location don’t permit adequate daily sun exposure. Vegan algae-based DHA/EPA supplementation may be a good idea, but you can also increase the body’s conversion of plant-based omega-3s (from sources such as ground flax seed and walnuts) by keeping your intake of omega-6s minimal. Other than those, a well-balanced, varied plant-based diet provides everything you need in abundance. It’s not a good idea to take supplemental Vitamin A or folate anyway. Best wishes to you!
I think the final moral source is your own commitment to a moral life, not a book even if it is called the Bible. Look what is being done in the name of Koran lately. They find justification for their behavior as well.
No matter what the Bible says the first time you see a cow defecating in fear as he approachs slaughter and then being hacked into pieces while still alive and hanging from a hook inserted in his flesh you’d probably have trouble swallowing it. And if you don’t care about cows did you know that about 80% of antibiotics are sold to be injected into chickens and livestock? What did the Bible say about that? It’s all about the money and you are the sucker.
Not all animals are treated that way. It’s amazing how vegans try to shame omnivores by telling us we are cruel to animals. I’ve actually met the chickens we will be eating later this year. They roam around a large property and eat at their leisure. They are well treated and humanely killed. I’ve also met the pig we will be consuming later this year. Same story. No antibiotics, no hanging from a hook, etc. And it’s not at all about the money. I could eat a lot cheaper if I gave up my expensive, ethically raised meat. But I follow the science and eat for health.
I’m not sure I understand your point there.
You seem to be suggesting that the chickens won’t mind being killed (whilst still less than half way through their natural lives) because those shortened lives are in nice surroundings.
Is that your point or have I misunderstood?
If it is your point then I’m curious about what you would say if another species ever starts doing that to you and your family.
Presumably if you’re happy with the principle of it (for the chickens) then you would be equally happy to practice what you preach should you’re kids ever be on the receiving end of the same thing??
Otherwise you’d be a hypocrite and I’m sure that’s not what you intended.
Just wondered if you could clarify. Thanks
You do know that those chickens would never have experienced life at all, if they had not been grown for meat? Would they rather have not lived at all, or have lived a happy life and come to a humane end?Nobody can really answer these questions, but we do the best we can.
Not only EPA and DHA (long-chain unsaturated fatty acids), but medium-chain *saturated fatty acids* are just as important for optimum health.
These are available from plant sources but *only* tropical ones.
The best is coconut (most easily obtained as cold-pressed oil), but most other tropical edible nuts and seeds (again, the cold-pressed oils from them) are also excellent.
At high latitudes – temperate through to arctic – nuts or seeds contain no fatty acids beyond mono-unsaturated.
In these regions people once had no choice but to eat meat to stay healthy.
What vegetarians and vegans don’t realize is that your brain needs certain protein to remain balanced. Yes, you can get away with eating fruits and veggies most of the time but at least once a week you should be eating red meat at a meal. Red meat contains a protein not found in fish, chicken, beans etc… That the brain needs this to function properly. Many vegans can become air headed or loopy if they choose not to realize this. Also, a child should NEVER be raised on a vegan/veg diet. They are too young and it WILL hurt their development.
Mark, can you please name that “certain protein”? Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, and all the essential amino acids (those that aren’t produced by the body) are available in abundance in plant foods.
Regarding your opinion on children being raised vegan or vegetarian: How many vegan children do you know? I know about a hundred, as well as young adults who’ve been vegan since birth. They are, if anything, healthier than most. My ten-year-old, vegan all her life, is bright, athletic, and never misses school. “Air-headed and loopy”? Not at all. She’s never needed an antibiotic and is mystified by the illnesses her classmates get. Strep, diarrhea, throwing up…These are not part of her experience, although, going to public school, she’s exposed to all the bugs that go around. Her omnivorous pediatrician says my daughter is one of her healthiest patients and tells me to make sure she “just keeps doing whatever she’s doing.”
You’re not going to convince a die hard meat eater to stop eating meat, and meat eaters you’re not going to convince the vegan or vegetarian to start eating meat. Granted I haven’t gone through all the comments, but from what I’ve seen on here there is a futile back-and-forth going on. We need to do what works for our bodies. For some people it just does not work to eat vegan, and for some people it doesn’t work to eat meat. That doesn’t mean that either person is wrong. I get so tired of people telling me what I should put in my body, and why. Just the other day I was sharing some information with women who have PCOS, and a vegan woman spent forever trying to convince me to live on vegetables, starchy vegetables, and fruit. I tried to explain to her that I’m eating in a way that lowers my blood sugar, and that high amounts of starchy vegetables, and fruits take my blood sugar up too high. I told her that when I ate a mainly plant-based diet, but had too much fortunate my blood sugars were almost 300. She kept on me for about an hour trying to get me to change. Telling me if I just tried it I would see she was right. I was polite, but I wanted to tell her off, and say what part of it made my blood sugars go up to 300 do you not get lady? The irony of the whole situation: this woman wasted so much time trying to convince me that her way was best, and my whole post was information on different ways of eating including vegan, vegetarian, ketogenic, Paleo, clean eating and plant-based diet, and I was encouraging people to do what works specifically for them. It’s okay to educate someone but then let it go. If you have a moral objection to eating meat, or if you feel it’s healthier that’s your business. I like to eat grass fed/free range meat raised by my local farmer, and I’m not going to change my mind about that. That doesn’t mean that I think you are wrong for not eating meat, but that means I don’t want you pressuring me.
Thank you, I agree. I also have PCOS and additionally am histamine intolerant, so my food choices are quite limited. I can’t eat vegetarian or vegan; its simply not possible for my health. Yet in forums where I am trying to get nutritional information I am often accosted by vegans insisting that they know my health issues better….somehow.
Preaching to people on your own moral issues with animal products approaches religious fervor with some. I don’t need converting, I know what sort of foods my body can digest.
There is a big difference between people who avoid eating meat and people who actually eat plants.
The more plants a person eats, the healthier that person is. People who eat exclusively plants are the healthiest by far. There is need for SUPPLEMENTS of vitamin B12 for vegans. Some people argue for EPA/DHEA supplements too – I take them – and vitamin D supplements should probably be taken by everyone in the northern hemisphere in the fall and winter.
I agree that just being a vegetarian or a vegan is not good enough to insure nutritional superiority. For that a person must eat a plant based diet and take appropriate supplements.
I was fat all my life as a kid I was fat my life sucked out loud I started cut out the meat and the wheat and rice and corn I have got rid of a 163 lbs. I am in better shape of my life you have to go with what works
You realise cutting out the wheat was probably the main factor there? Meat, assuming its not processed crap, and eaten in moderation wouldn’t cause you to gain wait.
Really? I’m a vegan of ideal weight (according to my doctor) and I consume large quantities of wheat.
What annoys me is how much hate there is towards vegans. Not all vegans are stuck up jerks trying to push their beliefs on you, it’s not a religion. It’s just not wanting to eat something or use certain products. You don’t need to justify your choices or get defensive because it has nothing to do with you. There’s radical people in every controversial topic, but not all of us are like that. Even other vegans try to tell me I’m not being vegan “the right way” and I roll my eyes. Just do whatever it is that makes you happy and feel good and leave me to my vegetables and fruits and the occasional package of oreos haha
I’m a bit of an extremist vegan sometimes but it is because I care deeply about the animals, and I think most vegans are similar.
Imagine you lived in a world where child prostitution was normalized as part of culture and when you enter a cafe or restaurant men (including your friends) would order little girls to rape. That’s how I feel when I see people eating meat, and I think that’s how most vegans feel as well.
Eating meat = raping little girls?
Wow, sorry you feel that way.
Morally, rape is wrong and eating animals is OK. Check the number one source of guidance on morality issues- the Bible.
Mentally, many animals are at the same level mentally as small children. Many Vegans/Vegetarians such as myself are aware of this and it makes the idea of manipulating and killing them just that much less attractive. I’m sure you don’t see it that way since, as most of us were, you were conditioned not to see animals as sentient, thoughtfull and emotional beings. It isn’t surprising that you feel this way.
Animals aren’t small children. That’s straight-up anthropomorphizing. Animals in the wild kill other animals. There’s no lack of respect there. It’s just what they do.
(Many) humans do the same thing. I love animals, and it’s not true that I was never taught to see animals as emotional creatures.
At the same time, there’s a huge difference between a dog and a cow, and I’m thankful for the cow’s life, since it converts low calorie nutrition into high calorie nutrition for me.
You could just as easily argue that the animal that gives its life to you as food is the most prized and respected of all animals.
“In Germany, a border collie named Rico can recognize over 200 different objects and has an IQ comparable to a 3-year-old child.”
I’m not making this up, this is the result of scientific research.
Is there something wrong with comparing animals to humans? Have you never been guilty of comparing humans to animals? Probably not when it was convenient to do so.
Not all animals kill other animals, and when they do, it’s usually because they are hungry and it’s a matter of survival. They do not have the options that we have.
Yes, there are some differences between a dog and a cow – on a mental level that may be just a matter of a few IQ points, the same goes for humans. We are not all on the same level intellectually.
“…the animal that gives it’s life to you…” ??? Are you sure about that? Because I’m pretty sure that it’s life was taken, by us, without the animal’s consent.
Rather touching concept, though.
Read more : http://www.ehow.com/info_8221852_animals-iq.html
Oi. I’ll pretend you didn’t just post a link to eHow (hardly an authoritative source of information). Demand Media (which owns eHow) has pretty wonky editorial standards. I know. I’ve done contracted work with them in the past.
Anyhow, here’s another take on it, written by a vegetarian:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Vegetarian-Myth-Justice-Sustainability/dp/1604860804
I don’t really want to go back and forth about mythological flaws in studies that equivocate dogs with humans. Let’s just agree to disagree on that part.
Stephen, interesting you consider Fertilization as RAPE! Hen’s can lay as many eggs as they want without a Horny Rooster. But if we want chicks, well, in your view the rapist rooster has to be involved, as cows only conceive when in heat. Natural cycles of conception R only Rape in the mind of an AR’st Vegan.
I have found that most extreme vegans tend to not have much practical experience with animals other than as pets.
And usually people who throw the term rape around as a descriptor for unrelated things…such as food….tend to have no experience as a victim of rape. Tasteless metaphor, Stephen
As a survivor of childhood rape, thank you for this.
It sounds like you have a healthy viewpoint. I respect that. I’m a former vegan. I must say that I have come to despise the vegan health cult and it’s leaders — e.g., T. Colin Campbell, Esselstein, McDougall, Ornish, etc. The cult believes that humans evolved as plant eaters and that animal consumption in any amount proportionally increases your chance of death and disease. Since I have started reading outside sources, I have come to believe that they are scientifically unsound, and, actually, fraudsters. The worst is Campbell. His epidemiological “grand prix” (how they love to quote Jane Brody on that), the China Study, is the house of cards on which all their so-called science is based.
I’m willing to be you got tired of dealing with the inconveniences to the Vegan lifestyle and had no trouble finding adequate excuses to revert back to eating meat. Yes, some Vegans are fanatical. Some meat-eaters are fanatical Some Christians are fanatical. Some football fans are fanatical. You find that everywhere. That doesn’t make all religion or sports wrong. And I’m willing to bet that that “so-called” science was much more accurate than you care to acknowledge.
If it didn’t work for you I am sorry – but taking your anger out on livesaving doctors rather than taking responsibility for your own decisions is pathetic.
Calling Esselstyn and Ornish cult leaders is actually offensive considering the fact they are esteemed published scientists with a long and well defined history of saving peoples lives through dietary and other interventions. They have been advancing the idea of diet as a treatment protocol for decades.
And as for the China Study – it certainly is not perfect – as no study is – but it represents the work of hundreds of scientists and many universities from all over the world. It is not the single voice of Colin Campbell.
Or did Denise Minger tell you otherwise?
Right on.
that’s what i say too
Why is it that vegans blast everyone who writes an article as being a pawn for the dairy and meat industry? Do you realize how entirely insulting and inane that is? It gets old. Would you like it if we treated you like a pawn for the grain industry or the soy industry? Which does enough of its own damage, from the sounds of things….
just a note on B12…. over 50’s in the USA are recommended to start taking a synthetic supplement as part of their normal diet, whether they eat a lot of meat, a little meat, or no meat at all… i am 31, a vegan, and i take this supplement also, as well as using other foods fortified with calcium, iron, and B12, so your argument about not being able to get these vitamins is pretty weak
I agree with you David.
I take a product called ‘Vegan Safe B12’ along with other supplements to fill the void.