This is an update of an article I published in 2011. I affirm that animal products are among the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat and that vegetarians and vegans are at risk for multiple nutrient deficiencies. I have included up-to-date research and expanded the list of nutrients that are often lacking in vegetarian and vegan diets.
Maybe you have considered going vegetarian or vegan for the health benefits. Or maybe you know someone who feels strongly about it as an ethical choice, and you wonder if they can really follow the diet in a healthy way. I respect these reasons and appreciate anyone who thinks deeply about the social and spiritual impact of their food choices—even if my own exploration of these questions has led me to a different answer.
But many choose a vegetarian diet because they’re under the impression that it’s a healthier choice from a nutritional perspective. It is this last reason that I’d like to address in this article. For the last 50-plus years, we’ve been told that meat, eggs, and animal fats are bad for us and that we’ll live longer and enjoy superior health if we minimize or avoid them. This idea has been so thoroughly drilled into our heads that few people even question it anymore. In fact, if you asked the average person on the street whether a vegetarian or vegan diet is healthier than an omnivorous diet, they’d probably say yes. But is this really true?
If You Want Nutrient-Dense Foods, You Need to Eat Animal Products
Plant-based diets emphasize vegetables, which are quite nutrient dense, and fruits, which are somewhat nutrient dense. They also typically include large amounts of cereal grains (refined and unrefined) and legumes, both of which are low in bioavailable nutrients and high in anti-nutrients like phytate. Most importantly, vegetarian and vegan diets eschew organ meats, other meats, and fish and shellfish, which are among the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat. (1)
Followers of vegetarian and vegan diets, beware: You could be missing out on B12, iron, calcium, and other key nutrients. Is it time to rethink your diet plan and add meat back to your plate? Find out. #nutrientdensefoods #paleocure.
Vegan diets, in particular, are almost completely devoid of certain nutrients that are crucial for physiological function. Deficiencies can take months or years to develop, and many are easily missed because they are not routinely tested for in primary care settings. Several studies have shown that both vegetarians and vegans are prone to deficiencies in:
- Vitamin B12
- Calcium
- Iron
- Zinc
- Long-chain fatty acids EPA and DHA
- Fat-soluble vitamins like A and D
Let’s take a closer look at each of these nutrients.
Vegetarian and Vegan Diets Don’t Provide Enough Vitamin B12
B12 deficiency is especially common in vegetarians and vegans. To properly evaluate B12 status, total serum vitamin B12 isn’t enough. A better marker for vitamin B12 is holotranscobalamin II, the biologically active fragment, which should be measured along with total homocysteine and methylmalonic acid. Low B12 is correlated with low holotranscobalamin II, while homocysteine and methylmalonic acid are usually increased in later stages of vitamin B12 deficiency. (2) The most recent studies using more sensitive techniques for detecting B12 deficiency have found that up to 77 percent of vegetarians and 92 percent of vegans are B12 deficient, compared to just 11 percent of omnivores. (3, 4, 5)
Vitamin B12 works together with folate in the synthesis of DNA and red blood cells. It’s also involved in the production of the myelin sheath around the nerves and the conduction of nerve impulses. B12 deficiency can cause numerous symptoms, including:
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Weakness
- Memory loss
- Neurological and psychiatric problems
- Anemia
- And much more …
It’s a common myth among vegetarians and vegans that it’s possible to get B12 from plant sources like:
- Seaweed
- Fermented soy
- Spirulina
- Brewer’s yeast
These plant foods don’t contain B12. They contain B12 analogs, called cobamides, that block the intake of—and increase the need for—true B12. (6) Researchers have identified purple laver nori (seaweed) as a plant source of bioavailable B12; however, it could contain high levels of cadmium and arsenic. (7, 8, 9, 10) More studies are needed, but there is a potentially serious problem with relying on purple laver nori for adequate B12.
If You’re Vegan, You Might Be Missing out on Calcium
You know that calcium is important for bone health, but did you know it’s essential for muscle and nerve function and that it’s involved in blood clotting? On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products). Vegans, however, are often deficient. (11, 12, 13)
Calcium bioavailability from plant foods is affected by their levels of oxalate and phytate, which are inhibitors of calcium absorption and thus decrease the amount of calcium the body can extract from plant foods. (10) So while leafy greens like spinach and kale have a relatively high calcium content, the calcium is not efficiently absorbed during digestion.
One study suggests that it would take 16 servings of spinach to get the same amount of absorbable calcium as an eight-ounce glass of milk. (14) That would be 33 cups of baby spinach or around five or six cups of cooked spinach. There are a few vegetables listed in this paper that have higher levels of bioavailable calcium, but it’s important to note that all of the vegetables tested required multiple servings to achieve the same amount of usable calcium as one single serving of milk, cheese, or yogurt.
This suggests that trying to meet your daily calcium needs from plant foods alone might not be a great strategy. For those who don’t tolerate dairy well, fish with edible bones like sardines are great sources of calcium on a Paleo diet.
You’re Also More Likely to Be Iron-Deficient on a Plant-Based Diet
Vegetarians and omnivores often have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores. (15, 16) This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency.
For example, this study of 75 vegan women in Germany found that 40 percent of them were iron deficient, despite average iron intakes that were above the recommended daily allowance. (17) Among Australian men, iron intake among vegetarians and vegans was 29 to 49 percent higher than omnivores, but their serum ferritin concentrations were barely half that of omnivores. (18) Despite similar iron intakes, another study published this year showed vegans and female vegetarians having low ferritin levels. (19)
Why would this be? As with calcium, the bioavailability of the iron in plant foods (nonheme iron) is much lower than in animal foods (heme iron). Plant-based forms of iron are also inhibited by other commonly consumed substances, such as:
- Coffee
- Tea
- Dairy products
- Supplemental fiber
- Supplemental calcium
This explains why vegetarian diets have been shown to reduce nonheme iron absorption by 70 percent and total iron absorption by 85 percent. (20, 21)
Red Meat, Fish, and Poultry Are Your Best Sources for Zinc
Zinc is important for the immune system, cell growth, and wound healing. You won’t usually see overt zinc deficiency in Western vegetarians, but their intake often falls below recommendations, probably because red meat, poultry, and fish are the best sources.
This is another case where bioavailability is important; many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption. Vegetarian diets tend to reduce zinc absorption by about 35 percent compared with an omnivorous diet. (22) Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. (23) One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50 percent more zinc than omnivores for this reason. (24) A meta-analysis of 34 studies found that both zinc intakes and serum zinc concentrations were lower in vegetarians than non-vegetarians. (25)
You Might Be Missing out on the Benefits of Essential Fatty Acids
Plant foods do contain linoleic acid (omega-6) and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, omega-3), both of which are considered essential fatty acids. In this context, an essential fatty acid is one that can’t be synthesized by the body and must be obtained in the diet. However, an increasing body of research has highlighted the benefits of the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA. These fatty acids play a protective and therapeutic role in a wide range of diseases: (26, 27)
- Cancer
- Asthma
- Depression
- Alzheimer’s disease
- Cardiovascular disease
- ADHD
- Autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis
While it is possible for some ALA from plant foods to be converted into EPA and DHA, that conversion is poor in humans: between 5 and 10 percent for EPA and 2 and 5 percent for DHA. (28)
Although no official recommendation exists, the daily suggested intake of combined DHA and EPA is around 250 to 500 mg. In theory, this means vegans and vegetarians would need to consume between five and 12.5 grams of ALA per day to obtain 250 mg of DHA. In reality, vegetarians and vegans consume merely 0.97 g/day and 0.86 g/day of ALA, respectively, according to a study of over 14,000 Americans. (29)
Vegetarians have 30 percent lower levels of EPA and DHA than omnivores, while vegans have 50 percent lower EPA and nearly 60 percent lower DHA. (30, 31) Moreover, the conversion of ALA to DHA depends on zinc, iron, selenium, and pyridoxine—nutrients that vegetarians and vegans are less likely than omnivores to get enough of. (32, 33, 34, 35) Eating 12 to 16 ounces of cold-water fatty fish per week remains the best way to get adequate EPA and DHA. The fish will also provide bioavailable protein and selenium.
Vitamins A and D: What You’re Missing
Fat-soluble vitamins play numerous and critical roles in human health. Vitamin A promotes healthy immune function, fertility, eyesight, and skin. Vitamin D regulates calcium metabolism, regulates immune function, reduces inflammation, and protects against some forms of cancer.
These important fat-soluble vitamins are concentrated, and in some cases found almost exclusively, in animal foods like:
- Seafood
- Organ meats
- Eggs
- Dairy products
Some obscure species of mushrooms can provide large amounts of vitamin D, but these mushrooms are rarely consumed and often difficult to obtain. This explains why vitamin D levels are often low in vegetarians and even lower in vegans. (36, 37, 38, 39)
The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient. (40, 41) For example, a single serving of liver per week would meet the RDA of 3,000 IU. To get the same amount from plant foods, you’d have to eat two cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes, or two cups of kale every day.
Moreover, traditional cultures consumed up to 10 times the current RDA for vitamin A. It would be nearly impossible to get this amount of vitamin A from plant foods without juicing or taking supplements. And if supplements aren’t consumed with a fatty meal, the actual absorption will be low. (42)
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Vegans and Vegetarians, You Could Be Missing These Key Nutrients
If you don’t eat meat or other animal products, you could also be missing out on:
- Choline
- Creatine
- Taurine
- Methionine
- Glycine
- Selenium
Choline
Vegetarian and vegan diets, along with the Standard American Diet, pose risks of choline deficiency. (43) Choline is required for:
- Healthy cell membrane function
- Methylation
- Cognitive development in children
It’s so important that the FDA recently set a daily recommended intake of 550 mg for men and 425 mg for women, which should increase to 450 mg during pregnancy and 550 mg during breastfeeding. Recent research suggests that only 8.5 percent of women meet the daily choline requirement. (44) With egg yolks and organ meats as the most potent sources of choline, it’s not surprising that even omnivores are not getting enough. This is another reason I encourage giving organ meat dishes another try.
Creatine
Creatine plasma and muscle levels are usually lower in vegetarians than in omnivores, as meat provides the richest source of creatine. (45) Creatine may play an important role in cognitive function. A randomized controlled trial found that six weeks of oral creatine supplementation significantly improved vegetarians’ performance on tests of fluid intelligence and working memory. The difference in scores between groups was enormous. (46)
Another study found that creatine supplementation in vegetarians improved memory, while having no effect on fluid intelligence or working memory in meat-eaters. (47) These results suggest that vegetarians’ baseline scores may have been impaired due to low creatine intake.
Taurine
Taurine has a central role as a neurotransmitter, promotes the development of the central nervous system, and upholds the structure of cell membranes. Although the body can synthesize small amounts of taurine, vegetarians and vegans often still have low plasma and urinary taurine levels because taurine is found primarily in animal products. (48, 49) Low plasma taurine in newborns is associated with lower scores on mental development and arithmetic tests at age seven, suggesting that dietary taurine aids in neural development. (50)
Methionine
Methionine is another amino acid that is restricted on a plant-based diet. Low methionine intake has been linked to longevity in scientific research. However, methionine is still an essential amino acid, and too little methionine may impair detoxification and reduce fertility. (51, 52) After being activated using ATP, methionine becomes the universal methyl donor.
On the flip side, too much methionine can also pose problems. After methyl donation, methionine becomes homocysteine and must be recycled back to methionine by B12, folate, or betaine (derived from choline). Because meat is high in methionine, diets heavy in muscle meats but low in connective tissues can result in increased homocysteine levels, a risk factor for CVD.
That said, studies have shown that vegetarians and vegans have significantly higher homocysteine levels on average than omnivores. (53) In one study, the average homocysteine level among vegetarians was 13.9 nmol/L and among vegans, 16.4 nmol/L, compared to 11.3 nmol/L for omnivores. (54) This puts most vegetarians and vegans in a range that carries significant risk of CVD. In fact, according to one study, the prevalence of hyperhomocysteinemia among vegetarians may actually be higher than that among non-vegetarians already diagnosed with heart disease. (55)
Glycine
Vegetarians and vegans don’t consume as much glycine as meat-eaters, as the richest sources are the “odd bits” of animal foods, like: (56)
- Skin
- Bones
- Collagen
- Gelatin
Glycine is one of the building blocks of collagen, found in our connective tissues. In addition to its structural role, glycine can also act as a neurotransmitter, plays a role in blood sugar regulation, and stimulates the production of glutathione, the body’s master antioxidant. (57, 58, 59, 60)
Some Paleo dieters can be susceptible to low glycine intake, too, if they are eating tons of muscle meat and ignoring the “nose-to-tail” philosophy. Glycine helps balance out methionine levels, in part by acting as a buffer for excess methyl groups. Low choline and glycine intake, common in vegetarians and vegans, can further contribute to high homocysteine levels and increased risk of CVD. Eating bone broth regularly can help balance glycine/methionine levels.
Selenium
While a few studies show no difference in selenium status among diet types, most research shows lower intake and/or levels in vegetarians and vegans compared to omnivores, including one study that measured glutathione peroxidase, a selenium-dependent enzyme and an excellent marker of active selenium status. (61, 62, 63, 64) Selenium has a role in immune function, supports thyroid hormone synthesis, and protects the thyroid from excess iodine damage. (65, 66) Selenium also helps prevent mercury toxicity. (67)
Selenium deficiency is also common in those with digestive health issues like Crohn’s disease or celiac disease. (68, 69) The best sources of selenium include:
- Brazil nuts
- Crimini mushrooms
- Some sea foods
- Chicken
- Eggs
- Lamb
- Turkey
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Eating Animal Products Could Also Help Your Thyroid Health
Thyroid hormone synthesis requires iodine, a nutrient that can be lacking from omnivore and plant-based diets alike. Most iodine comes from the sea; the soil—and therefore vegetables grown in soil—usually contains very little. In a typical mixed diet, the highest sources of iodine are iodized salt and animal products like:
- Dairy products
- Eggs
- Seafood
Vegetarians and vegans are at risk for low iodine intake. (70)
In the Boston area, urinary iodine levels in vegans were barely half that of vegetarians, and vegans were at high risk of iodine deficiency. (71) Several studies of Scandinavian populations confirm that vegans finished last in iodine intake and/or urinary iodine levels. (72, 73, 74) To make matters worse, isoflavones found in soy products, which are sometimes consumed in large quantities in vegan and vegetarian diets, may exacerbate iodine deficiency and hypothyroidism. (75)
But even those following a Paleo template can be at risk for iodine deficiency if they are not regularly consuming seafood. (76) Sea vegetables, especially kelp, are the highest sources of iodine ounce for ounce.
Your Kids Need Nutrient-Dense Foods to Thrive
Because of the prevailing idea in our culture that vegetarian and vegan diets are healthy, more and more children are being raised from birth (and even from conception!) on meat-free diets. Both the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (AND) and USDA have said that vegetarian and vegan diets are safe during pregnancy, but critical analyses by several researchers have questioned whether these recommendations are based on sufficient evidence. One review remarked that “the evidence on vegan–vegetarian diets in pregnancy is heterogeneous and scant,” suggesting that more research is needed to answer the question of whether they are, in fact, safe during pregnancy. (77)
Vegetarian and vegan diets for children carry significant risks of nutrient deficiencies that can have dire health consequences. (78, 79, 80)
Studies have shown that kids raised until age six on a vegan diet are still B12 deficient years after adding at least some animal products to their diet. One study found an association between B12 status and measures of intelligence and memory, with formerly vegan kids scoring lower than omnivorous kids. (81) Devastating case studies have reported B12 deficiency in young vegan children that have led to neurological damage and developmental delays. (82, 83)
Low nutrient intake extends beyond vitamin B12. Other case studies have attributed hypothyroidism in young children to a maternal and/or childhood vegan diet. (84, 85) Compared to omnivores, breast milk from vegan mothers had lower levels of DHA and EPA, which are vital for brain development, especially in the first year of life, when a baby’s brain literally doubles in size. (83) In short, just like adults, children on vegetarian and vegan diets often have lower intakes of iron, iodine, vitamin A, zinc, and more.
Your Best Choice for Optimal Nutrition Isn’t a Vegetarian or Vegan Diet, but a Paleo Template
With care and attention, I think it’s possible to meet most of your nutrient needs with a vegetarian diet that includes liberal amounts of pasture-raised, full-fat dairy and eggs, with one exception: EPA and DHA. These long-chain omega fats are found exclusively in marine algae and fish and shellfish, so the only way to get them on a vegetarian diet would be to take a microalgae supplement or bend the rules and take fish oil or cod liver oil as a supplement. (86) Still, while it may be possible to obtain adequate nutrition on a vegetarian diet, it is not optimal—as the research above indicates.
I don’t think it’s possible to meet nutrient needs on a vegan diet without supplements—and quite a few of them. Vegan diets are low in:
- B12
- Bioavailable iron and zinc
- Choline
- Vitamins A and D
- Calcium
- EPA and DHA
It’s worth pointing out that there are genetic differences that affect the conversion of certain nutrient precursors (like beta-carotene and alpha-linolenic acid) into the active forms of those nutrients (like retinol and EPA and DHA, respectively), and these differences may affect how long someone will be able to follow a vegetarian or vegan diet before they develop nutrient deficiencies. This explains why some people seem to do well for years on these diets, while others develop problems very quickly.
Is It Time to Rethink Your Diet?
From an evolutionary perspective, is difficult to justify a diet with low levels of several nutrients critical to human function. While it may be possible to address these shortcomings through targeted supplementation (an issue that is still debated), it makes far more sense to meet your nutritional needs from food.
This is especially important for children, who are still developing and are even more sensitive to suboptimal intake of the nutrients discussed in this article. Like all parents, vegetarians and vegans want the best for their children. Unfortunately, many are not aware of the potential for nutrient deficiencies posed by their dietary choices.
I hope this article can serve as a resource for anyone on a plant-based diet, whether they choose to start eating meat (or animal products, in the case of vegans) again or not.

Dietary intake and nutritional status of young vegans and omnivores in Sweden.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12081822
“Vegans had higher intakes of vegetables, legumes, and dietary supplements and lower intakes of cake and cookies and candy and chocolate than did omnivores. Vegans had dietary intakes lower than the average requirements of riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin D, calcium, and selenium. Intakes of calcium and selenium remained low even with the inclusion of dietary supplements.”
Please note that vegans ate LESS junk food than the controls, consumed MORE veggies, legumes and supplements than the controls, and STILL managed to be low in essential nutrients.
This next article is a story of vegan children who experienced growth/developmental issues despite taking dietary supplements. (I suspect a carotene to Vitamin A conversion issue was also at play, but that wasn’t noted in the article).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html
This article is by a vegan turned omnivore for the health of her family:
https://kristensraw.com/blog/2013/03/17/my-vegan-diet-caused-health-problems-would-primal-paleo-or-real-food-be-better
Finally, we have a fascinating article by a vegan woman who has chosen to incorporate animal products into her daughter’s diet. It reveals DEEP pathological behavior in the raw vegan community. This is a profound and ongoing problem. I don’t happen to agree with all of her conclusions, but I’m very appreciative of her effort to publicize these issues, some of which I have personal experience with:
“Then I had to question the sanity of those who dismissed the experience of others. The blatant lies and cover-ups are likely due to the left brain being too dominant in these people. While I feel physically sick that this still happens, I refuse to judge or condemn them. They need love, just like the rest of us. They need to be made to feel safe and secure so they can be truthful and get the help they need for their children without risk of attack.”
https://www.shazzie.com/life/articles/raw_vegan_children.shtml
Thanks for posting the links, Karin. I plan to check them all. 🙂
It’s my pleasure, Kitsy! Thanks for the feedback.
I liked that link that you posted, too. 🙂
Legumes and grains can be really bad for some of us….Been there, done that.
Here We Go Again: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health
https://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2014/02/here-we-go-again-vegetarian-diets-and.html#comment-form
We certainly don’t need to eat meat as much as most of us do. Once a week is plenty. With respect to dairy, stick with organic and if you can find it, raw milk. Especially organic butter, which is concentrated. Eat your vegetables well-cooked to unlock the nourishment behind the strong cell wall. (Freezing and drying and fermenting works, too). Unfermented soy products are very hard on the body, disrupting hormone and endocrine systems.
And let’s not forget that whenever we eat, we give death to something. Let us honor the plants and the animals who so willingly sacrifice themselves so that we might live. We are all food for something.
i almost suspect this is a troll post. I don’t think one could pack more misinformation into two short paragraphs if one tried. Every single bit of information here is so status-quo rah-rah that it is almost emblematic of all that we work so hard to awaken people to. And to top it off to compare the suffering of animals to that of plants, who apparently go “willingly” to their deaths. How UTTERLY sad to post such a thing.
From yesterday’s NYTimes:
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link/
Dr David Katz Director, Yale Prevention Research Center: https://huff.to/1qX5ZTQ
yikes: https://bit.ly/1jxyIJv
If you want a good answer to the faulty claims in this article, please read :
https://www.theveganrd.com/2014/03/dont-think-twice-about-going-vegan.html
I’ve been vegetarian all my life, 48. I am extremely healthy, cycle everywhere, swim, dance for hours every week.
In the last few years I had to take a serious look at my diet to deal with arthritis that has developed in my foot (hereditary)
I found that ensure it is much more alkaline, less grain and acidic veg, high intake of raw greens has changed it from not being able to put my shoes on to.. to being able to dance barefoot, pain free. In the process of doing this I found the key supplements that help are cold pressed Hemp Oil, which is high in Long strand Omega oils.. much better than fish. B12 is a bacteria that is easily available when foraging berries.. blackberries and raw seaweed. Most meat is now irradiated and wrapped in plastic, so the bacteria that makes it has been killed off. The critical issue we face is that poor farming methods have reduced the vitamin and mineral content in food. So it is important to source organic, sustainably grown food, where the soil has been fed and cared for. There is so much information out there on how to eat well.. especially from the raw food nutritionists like David Wolfe.
The key in working out what diet suits you, is to pay attention to the affect your food has on you.. if you eat well, you will feel well.
I was vegan for 16 years, developed serious estrogen related illness because of soy phytoestrogenic compounds, felt like crap for most of it…
moving to paleo due to carbohydrate related problems with vegetarian diet (GERD, LPR)…
funny that now I am a meat eater! hahaha!
For those of you swooning over forks over knives read this pretty brainy dissection of the research:
https://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/
I converted from being carnivorous to vegan 5 years ago. People have said it was extreme and that I would not succeed. It was a great struggle but I was determined to lead a healthy lifestyle and hoped that through it I may be able to get rid of skin rashes I get every now and then, poor sleep, constipation and feelings of depression. I think as my body started to get rid of toxins built up over the years, I felt some sort of withdrawal symptoms which vanished as my body slowly accepted my new diet regime. One day I went to my doctor for my annual pap smear and we chatted about my vegan diet. She was very concerned about my health and told me that it would do enormous long term harm to my health. She suggested that I do a complete test to check that everything was alright. Everything was tested in my system, every nook and cranny and nothing was left to chance. When I came back a week later to get the results, she couldn’t believe everything was healthy except for a very tiny bit of deficiency in Vitamin D which she said could be improved with adequate exposure to sunlight. I couldn’t be happier. The skin rash that would plague me had not returned, I sleep better, the constipation had vanished and my bowel movement has become regular and I feel much better. And that’s thanks to my new vegan diet., Well, I still drink wine – red wine – in moderation and I have included regular exercise in my regime. A vegan diet will work wonders if you know how to mix and match plant-based foods, nuts, legumes etc so that they complement each other. I also believe in God and the diet He had prescribed for optimal health.
The author missed the most important nutrient that vegans and vegetarians need to be concerned with: Magnesium!
Actually, that is completely incorrect. The best sources of magnesium in the world come from plants. As a matter of fact, animal products don’t even appear in the top 10 list of best sources for magnesium. Leafy greens and nuts/seeds are the best. Here is a great site that explains how magnesium is used in the body, how it interacts with other vitamins and minerals, and a pretty comprehensive list of whole foods that contain it. I recommend exploring the site for info on other vitamins and minerals as well. I should note that the site is not for vegetarians or vegans (though they can certainly learn a lot from it); it includes data on animal products as well, so you know it is unbiased.
Here is the magnesium page: https://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?pfriendly=1&tname=nutrient&dbid=75
Here is the page for all other essential nutrients:
https://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php
I do agree with a lot of statements regarding the vegetarian diet. Unfortunately my being a vegetarian is not something that’s chosen. I cannot stand meat, seafood or fish apart from the odd fish finger! I’ve tried so many times to eat it but it literally makes me gag. I can’t stand the thought of eating something that was running around. If I chew anything and find a jibbly bit or a bone I could actually go into a swoon!
I’ve often thought of getting hypnotised lol, however all joking aside I have a 6 year old and I hate the thought of passing these habits onto him. Currently he’ll eat any fruit or vegetables, and most meats and fish. I hope it stays that way.
Of course when it comes to myself I’m not sure what to do, I know by the way I feel in myself I’m not eating healthily but I don’t know where to start.
My NHS doctor has sent me to a dietician only to be told I should eat low fat high carb diet which makes me gain wait at the pace of an intergalactic invasion. When oh when is the NHS going to drop this low fat crud…..?
I just started an online course for diet and nutrition, hopefully it may shed some light on how to proceed!
Funny how people who don’t like fruit and veggies don’t argue that that means their bodies don’t need them. And people they say it to either say A) force yourself to eat it anyway or B) you just haven’t found a good way to cook them yet.
And yet “I don’t enjoy meat/fish/eggs/dairy” is somehow considered adequate argument that one is a different species than the rest of us and their bodies are telling them they will do best as vegans.
I was vegetarian for 15 years (probably gave me the CFS I’m still getting out from under). When I started eating meat again I thought it was disgusting, but my body liked it so much I persevered, and have now found plenty of recipes that I find quite yummy.
Not that you will (since the theme here is ‘only speak for yourself, don’t tell others they will have their experience’). But my mom doesn’t like vegetables and can’t be bothered to prepare them in a way she’ll like, and she plows through a little bowl of kale every night, like taking medicine. Find something you can almost gag down and do it.
I would like to circle back to this site and Paleo as I am not sold on it. I don’t understand how any of the Paleo diets are truly Paleo because even Chris’s recipes/foods where not found in the Paleolithic era and this is the premise, so it seems to me to be a “fad” diet. I even saw that Cordain endorses Paleo Diet bars https://thepaleodiet.com/foods/. I am certainly not living a Paleo woman lifestyle and don’t want too!
@Suzie
Agree totally
Exactly how are these “paleo”? Cordain is a whore like most in the community are. Pushing products, supplements, etc.
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ALLERGENS:
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Phil Nichols, that is an impressive list of the major thinkers of the past centuries. People who are able to see the big picture. Beyond splitting hairs over micronutrients you have to ask why people react wth such rage to people who do not feel animals are here for the primary purpose of serving man’s desires, because react with rage is what they do. I think some people are able to see animals as sentient and others either aren’t or simply haven’t turned their thoughts to it, which would be fine but the rage is strange. Awaiting the no doubt follow-up enraged comments and attacks…..
lol Erica
there’s another saying.. something to the effect, “no amount of evidence will convince someone of something they are not willing to accept”
ya, Im not getting dragged into this. I will give Karin her link since she asked but Im outta here.
https://vegan.wikia.com/wiki/Famous_Vegans_and_Vegetarians
Good grief.. here Erica back with her reading comprehension problem.. her blinkers that only allow her to see what she wants to see and disregard the rest! LOL indeed Phil.
As for “famous vegetarians”…
I’ve seen it stated (on vegetarian sites incidentally) that Albert Einstein was likely only a vegetarian (not a vegan) for the last year of his life. So what?
Listing these famous people as if that adds any weight to your argument, is about as meaningful and convincing to me as the questions around Hitler’s religious beliefs. Was he Catholic or Atheist? So what?!?
It’s great that you have made your own lifestyle choices… please respect others to do the same for their own reasons.
My reasons..? try reading some of my other comments; instead of persisting with the myth (like Erica) that all “meat-eaters” are self-centered, egoists, hung-up on micro-nutrients… blah blah blah blah blah…
Darwin wasn’t a vegetarian.
Lincoln wasn’t a vegetarian.
Gandhi thought that prescriptive vegans were fraudsters and enemies of India:
In the end he had to acknowledge the necessity for animal food. In 1946 he declared: “The crores of India today get neither milk nor ghee nor butter, nor even buttermilk. No wonder that mortality figures are on the increase and there is a lack of energy in the people. It would appear as if man is really unable to sustain life without either meat or milk and milk products. Anyone who deceives people in this regard or countenances the fraud is an enemy of India.”
https://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet3.html#0
I don’t have time to fact-check them all. The list itself is based on nonsense and wishful thinking……..oh that’s right……..
“based on … wishful thinking”
Sure it’s a nice idea to think that you can live without taking life… especially if you use anthropomorphic ideas to decide on what actually counts as “alive” but it is a mistaken and misleading view of life.
I don’t find it hypocritical of me to say I respect life, while I share it with other lifeforms on this planet.
Perhaps Erica has her fingers in her ears and refuses to hear the rational, and reasonable discussion going on here (see Karin’s excellent earlier comment) — it really must be so much easier to dismiss all “meat-eaters” as thoughtless barbarians (although I’m still not clear where Erica stands, as she denies being a veg*n herself)… maybe this is why she is unable to respond in a reasoned way… too much self-loathing?
Karin
actually, I do have a garden and although we are not solely 100% self sufficient, it does help out with the grocery bills.
my whole family are vegans for over 20 years. It takes more than 25 times as much land and crops, not to mention water and energy to raise animals of which only a small percentage makes it back to the tables of humans.
so if you are interested in saving plants, land, water and energy, you are best to stop eating meat because thats at least 25 times worst.
Dorothy,
I asked for a list of foods that you are eating this winter, because I think it would enlighten you just how many more animals might be killed in the process of raising the crops and getting you that food than living like the Amish farmer that I referenced in my prior post. He doesn’t grow crops to feed to his steers. His steers eat the grass.
Also, you may not know it, but animal-based inputs are used in growing almost all of that organic food. Usually CAFOs. I would love to learn of your plan for the world (or even the continental U.S.) that can feed all people using all-veganic, non-industrialized agriculture. If you can do that, I’m in.
Provided that you also include a plan for all of the people who do not thrive on plant-only diets. 🙂
Sorry! Here is the linking to that meat-eating vegan. 🙂
so this is the best we can do as a civilized society after all these years? We can send men to the moon, we have new ways of agriculture… but we must follow the way of a tribe? I don’t think this is the way for all. Not too many people living in todays so called advanced society would take on this position. This is justification for eating animals because some indigenous tribe does so? The Ancient Mayans used to toss their first born to the volcano Gods to assure a good coming year… maybe we should do this too, after all, it would help keep the population down 🙂
Hi Dorothy,
I’m going to take a wild guess that you don’t grow all of your own food. Or that you didn’t really didn’t read my prior post, as it pertains to industrialized agriculture.
Care to share all the foods that you’ve been eating this winter? Maybe we could evaluate the impact in a way that you’ve never even considered.
Did you watch the clip Dorothy? You never know… might find it enlightening.. especially the last minute or so.
Hi Suzie,
Thanks for your question! I am responding at the bottom of the thread because the sub-thread was so narrow that it had become unreadable.
“Open Mind” stated:
“If someone wanted to do something – like not eat animals or drink their secretions that you would respect their position – that at least this person is doing something.”
I deeply respect and identify with the INTENTION to avoid harming animals (both human and non-human). It is a subject that I think about every day of my life. But I reject the position that prescriptive and/or dogmatic veganism is creating a gentler and more sustainable world “on the ground.” If you want a gentler world, my position is that rigid adherence to universal veganism moves us in precisely the wrong direction.
To evaluate whether or not a person is in fact doing “less harm” to animals by choosing a given vegan product over an animal product, it’s important to consider where one lives (i.e., are you in Alaska or San Diego?), the time of year, how the plant foods were grown, harvested, processed and packaged, how the different crops were protected from wild animals, how the animals were caught or raised, how the different products were transported, total pollution costs, etc.
I don’t know if you’ve reviewed all of the posts on this thread, but I’ve studied crop and soil science, and I think it’s important to consider more than the overt violence of the slaughterhouse when thinking about the tremendous amount of violence that is INHERENT in attempting to feed 7 billion people. Agriculture, especially large-scale agriculture, is innately violent. In order to feed one species to the exclusion of others, you must uproot homes, displace, poison, trap, starve etc. etc. etc. It is brutal. You must declare that this parcel that was once home to many, is now the property of the few. It is now yours, and yours alone, because you are at the top of the food chain. Someone tried to compare animal agriculture to human slavery….well, if it is, then what the heck is “plant-based” agriculture? The fact is that we are human animals and we are competing with others for scarce resources. There is absolutely no peaceful way to do that. https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/mice-the-biggest-losers-w-vegetarianism/4660498
Allow me to elaborate:
I live in upstate New York.
Let’s say that my Amish friend slaughters his (grass-fed) steer. If he gets 500lbs of meat from that steer, and eats a 1/4 lb of meat every night for dinner, the meat would last him 2000 days. So he is effectively eating/killing less than one cow every 5 years.
Let’s say that, out of compassion for animals, I choose a “Vegan-approved” option like legumes and grains for dinner every night over the course of the same 5+ years.
S.L. Davis from the Department of Animal Sciences at Oregon State University, writes:
“One Oregon farmer told me that half of the cottontail rabbits went into his combine when he cut a wheat field, that virtually all of the small mammals, ground birds, and reptiles were killed when he harvested his crops. Because most of these animals have been seen as expendable, or not seen at all, few scientific studies have been done measuring agriculture’s effects on their populations.” In a study that has been done to examine the effect of harvesting grain crops, Tew and Macdonald (1993) reported that mouse population density dropped from 25/ha preharvest to less than 5/ha postharvest. This decrease was attributed to both migration out of the field and to mortality. They estimated the mortality rate to be 52%. In another study Nass et al. (1971) reported that the mortality rate of Polynesian rats was 77% during the harvest of sugar cane in Hawaii. These are the estimated mortality rates for only a single species, and for only a single operation (i.e. harvesting). Therefore, an estimate somewhere between 52 and 77% (say 60%) for animals of all kinds killed during the production year would be reasonable. Using the population density shown in Tew and Macdonald’s (1993) paper (25/ha) times a 60% mortality rate of 15 animals/ha each year.
Note that these figures just refer to the harvesting of the plants. We aren’t even discussing the effects of processing, long-distance transport, fossil fuel use, etc. Remember that the farmer killed a steer every 5+ years. I would respectfully ask any vegan to estimate the total number of animals that are maimed, displaced, turned into roadkill, starved, or otherwise harmed in the planting, harvesting, packaging, and transport over hundreds of miles of 5+ years worth of grain and legumes?
So, getting back to Open Mind’s question about whether or not eating plant-only is “doing something”: Obviously it’s doing “something”, but in my opinion, sometimes MUCH more harm than good.
Regarding use of the word “vegan”:
Before writing this, I googled the phrase “am I still vegan if I eat….”
Over 200,000,000 hits came up. That suggests to me that too many people may have priorities which are counter to the goals of sustainability and compassion. Why would one care if others consider it “vegan” to do something? Shouldn’t the individual instead be considering whether it causes less suffering than the alternative? Vegans have traditionally avoided honey because it “exploits the bees,” which, in my mind, suggests that these folks either have no idea of what’s involved in producing most “vegan approved” crops, or that they do know, but in their effort to maintain their membership in the “club”, they fail to be mindful that their choice may not actually reduce suffering.
Does it make any sense, for example, to purchase a container of brown rice syrup over local honey if one wishes to reduce animal suffering? Similarly, why would one prefer to purchase tofu over oysters, if impact on the welfare of animals and environment are the main consideration? A variety of animals, including mammals, are killed and maimed in the production of the so-called “vegan” options, and I think the evidence suggests that far more suffering is involved, as well.
Even if we were to accept the (dubious) premise that eating plants always causes less suffering than eating animal products, I would argue that a meat eater who chooses not to bring children into the world, purchase a car, or travel to far-away countries for pleasure is causing far less harm than the “plant-only” eater who brings children into the world, drives a car, and takes vegan cruises https://www.atasteofhealth.org/events/rates.htm.
We routinely hear people describe themselves as a “vegan who eats honey”. Would a meat eater such as my Amish farmer, whose entire life, I submit, does FAR less harm to animal life than a typical “plant-only” eater, rightly be called a “vegan who eats meat”? The most magnificent meat-eating-vegan I’ve ever seen: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=attenborough%20hunter&sm=3
Many self-proclaimed “vegans” scoff at the idea of not purchasing certain things that might contain animal parts, like computers, TV’s, cars, etc. I find that to be a preposterously self-serving and cowardly position. Most of the world doesn’t have these things. My Amish friend doesn’t have these things. Authentically vegan intentional communities exist to avoid such things. So when some people claim that they are making such a sacrifice for the animals, I have to wonder what alternative reality they are living in. It seems that the sacrifice begins and ends with the replacement of ice cream with “Coconut Dream”. Are we to take this seriously? Why would we use a single word to describe someone, if the word itself doesn’t even consistently MEAN anything at all?
Open Mind provided that story about the starfish.
I also like that story.
But here’s my little spin on it:
It’s the story of a mildly self-righteous, ecologically unaware girl who thinks that as long as she doesn’t actually eat animal parts she’s doing right by the animal world and the world as a whole. She has never grown her own food, and only has the vaguest ideas about how it all gets to her, and doesn’t even realize that the byproducts of animal agriculture are an essential part of the production of most of the “vegan” food that she buys.
One day she hears about the plight of the starfish, so she decides to book a flight to east Asia so that she can personally assist in saving them….
When she gets there, she realizes that the starfish are being washed ashore by cargo ships that are loading up with an array of food items. They are to be transported on a several-thousand mile journey to quell the ever-increasing appetites of unconscious consumers in New York, many of whom are “vegans” just like her. And then she suddenly realizes that the airplane that carried her and her fellow “eco-tourists” on their way to rescue those starfish probably killed a bunch of birds on the way.
I used to be that girl. It may seem like I’m mocking her, but I’m really not. Except to the extent that she was ignorant enough to think that she was more “compassionate” or “empathetic” than the farmer who stays home and lives off the land with the help of his animals, selling nourishing food at farmer’s markets and purchasing essentials from his neighbors.
What I want to see is a return to a more traditional, yet progressive world. One where people eat moderately and with respect for their bodies and their farmers. One where diets aren’t based on importing $20 a day worth of fruit into New England in the middle of winter from thousands of miles away. One where people sustain themselves through the winter predominantly with the foods of winter, which, in many regions, are animal foods. I believe that this way of life is still the norm in places like France, for example, where people consume significantly more milk, 4 times the butter, 60% more cheese, much more organ meat, etc, and yet manage to live much longer than us!
In my opinion, if we want to build a better world for all animals, both human and non-human, we would consider a range of actions and/or abstentions like the ones below. I see these and similar actions as far more life-affirming than universal veganism.
1. Adopt children, rather than procreate.
2. Don’t consume more than you need: Don’t buy more than one home (and make it a modest one); avoid travelling to faraway places for pleasure; don’t use food as entertainment; avoid purchasing products of big industry; avoid buying stuff wrapped in plastic; be mindful of the hidden impact of every act.
3. When you do consume, consume locally. Basing your diet on foods that are coming from Thailand and Africa and New Zealand and Chile when you live in Montana is not helpful to animals in any way! Animals are maimed and die every time your cargo ship/airplane moves through their habitat!
4. Don’t waste.
5. Share: i.e., Help others eat well. If we share resources/cash nobody has to buy horrible, inhumane food.
6. Create an intentional community. Try to grow food veganically and see just what’s entailed into producing food for humans. In fact, I might be open to letting someone on this thread use my 12 acres of land to show us all just how easy it is to sustain him/herself in upstate New York throughout the year without the use of animals. Maybe we could make it a reality show. 🙂
To be honest with you, this is a tough post to write. I don’t know quite how to express how uncomfortable I am with the idea of killing animals. This is not the world that I would design. However, I tend to believe in a form of reincarnation, and if I were to come back as some random animal to this world, I honestly would prefer that it be a world where humans live simpler lives and are more reliant on themselves and their surrounding communities for their food, rather than one run by vegans who kill through an over-reliance on massive industry and big agriculture and gigantic multi-national corporations……even if most of the people in this vegan-dystopia see animals like me as warm and fuzzy and think that they’re doing me such a huge favor.
I relate to this quote by Michael Pollan:
“The fact that you cannot come out of hunting feeling unambiguously good about it is perhaps what should commend the practice to us. You certainly don’t come out of it eager to protest your innocence. If I’ve learned anything about hunting and eating meat, it’s that it’s even messier than the moralist thinks. Having killed a pig and looked at myself in that picture and now looking forward (if that’s the word) to eating that pig, I have to say there is a part of me that envies the moral clarity of the vegetarian, the blamelessness of the tofu eater. Yet part of me pities him too. Dreams of innocence are just that; they usually depend on a denial of reality that can be its own form of hubris. Ortega suggests that there is an immorality in failing to look clearly at reality, or in believing the force of human will can somehow overcome it.”
So say we all! Nicely put Karin
Wow – Thank you Karin for explaining your experience and your perspective at length: “used to be that girl” – you are still that girl but continue to learn and shape your purpose in the world. However, your experience does inform your strong opinions as you seemingly fight hard against “vegans” – how could it not. Maybe using what you have learned and your energy – your schooling will propel you to become a leader in sustaining this world. I can’t see the solution so try my best.
Thank you so much, Susie. Your gracious response means more to me than you will ever know.
Thanks for writing this Karin, it has helped me see more clearly.
Thanks for your kind words, AmyR! 🙂
Well said Karin because a lot of vegans get on their “high horses” when they talk with me (I am a meat eater). They think there is no blood on their hands. I have made similar arguments to them about the loss of animal life in the harvesting process. Perhaps collateral damage doesn’t count?
.. the article talks about “deficiencies” … like no meat eater ever had a deficiency? My father was eating meat regularly. at 80 he developed an iron deficiency.
Doctors advised him of diet and even subscribed an iron supplement that he used to take. He died at 82 from a heart condition.
Some meat eaters live longer, some live shorter, some vegans live longer, some shorter. There are many vegans over 100 and meat eaters as well.
Some people grow to over 6ft tall, some never reach 6ft. this is DNA.
There are fat meat eaters, skinny meat eaters, healthy one and sick ones – same as vegetarians and vegans.
If “health” was not even part of this equation, then it comes down to right from wrong, cruel from not cruel and what is best for the environment.
I hear lots of meat eaters justifying the cruelty with simple statements like, “well, man has to eat”.
but we know now that man does not have to eat animals. The thought of “harvesting animals” is right out there when you think about it.
Most wouldn’t “round up” all the neighbourhood cats and dogs and cook them all for the “tribe” to eat now would they? yet SOME DO!
So what makes cows and pigs and chickens different?
People say its not cruel… would YOU trade places with an animal harvested as “food”? For those that think its not cruel, have you ever seen an animal slaughtered in front of you? (I have) .. Have you ever visited the local slaughter house? Have you ever even watched the animals being herded off the trucks and onto the “kill floor”? Would you take your kids to the slaughterhouse for day trip?
Why not? if its so “normal” and ok? and the way of life? and the way its been for millions of years?
I see lots of kids gardening with their folks in the summer but never any class trips to the slaughterhouse.
as far as ecology, it takes far more energy and land and crops and water to get a small percentage of meat. This energy, land, crops and water could be used to feed the ever growing population of people not animals raised to be harvested.
just a thought.
Hi Drew,
You seem extremely confident in declaring the plant-only diet as universally ideal for human health. I struggle to see how you have come to this conclusion, in light of the massive amount of evidence that I have seen to the contrary.
I noticed that you recommend that people eat “vegan, varied and complete, with whole foods, as raw as possible” for optimal health. I think that the preponderance of the evidence suggests that *many* adults with a high metabolic rate and few food sensitivities can indeed thrive on such a whole foods plant-only diet, because if you have a high enough caloric intake, it doesn’t matter much if the foods consumed are nutritionally dense or optimally bio-available.
But would you really give the same recommendations to everyone? For example, to people with a wide range of food sensitivities; to people with thyroid issues; to people who have difficulty synthesizing cholesterol; to people with epilepsy and/or mood disorders; to people who have difficulty converting beta-carotene to Vitamin A and similar polymorphisms; and to all children?
Speaking of children, this is a sample meal plan provided by the Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine for children ages 1-4:
Breakfast: Oatmeal with applesauce, calcium–fortified orange juice
Lunch: Hummus on crackers, banana, soymilk, carrot sticks
Dinner: Corn, mashed sweet potatoes, steamed kale, soymilk
Snacks: Peaches, Cheerios, soymilk
Please note the use of fortified Soymilk, Cheerios, and Orange Juice in lieu of whole foods. To me, this looks like a nutrient-sparse diet that requires the addition of synthetically-fortified processed foods of questionable quality to meet even minimal nutritional requirements for some nutrients, such as protein, zinc, iron, etc. while remaining deficient in other nutrients. Does this look like an optimal diet for 1-4 year old children to you? How, if at all, might you modify it?
Would you be willing to share what your personal diet/caloric intake would look like in a typical week and in what region of the country you reside? Also, if you take any supplements? I think it might be instructive. Thanks in advance for considering this request!
Also, you may be aware that people who try veganism tend to be more educated and health-conscious than the average person…..Does it seem reasonable to conclude that the tremendous number of people who do not thrive on plant-only diets were just too ignorant to realize that they should be eating a variety of complete whole foods? What about people like Dr. Chris Masterjohn, Robb Wolf, Melissa McKewen, Denise Minger….do they just strike you as a bunch of dummies who ate Boca Burgers all day long and forgot about their veggies?
Finally, evidence does suggest that vegan children on average suffer more from various sub-clinical deficiencies, even when compared to their counterparts, who tend to eat massive amounts of processed and nutritionally-empty food. I would be curious to know your interpretation of this as well. Thanks!
Hi Karin, when time permits, I will address your thoughtful note properly. But in a nutshell, yes, i am very confident my thoughts are generally applicable. We all like to think we are unique, but the reality is we are so very alike via our dna, that we have universal truths.
Health is but a snapshot of our biosystem at any given time. Every single cell is replaced within a period of time, and is replaced via the nutrients you absorb. Each cell contains the blueprints for what *it* requires and it does not forget.
Just like we should not judge a person for their past but for their present, we should also bathe our cells in the nutrients it needs for harmonious existence. As well, if you don’t allow your gut bacteria to form properly, you will never ever be healthy. Our bodies are remarkable machines, and each health issue is a story, one driven deeper to manifest in a new way if you simply drive it away with most modern meds. cheers..
I’d also like to add that DNA makes a huge difference in performance. I will never be an olympic athlete or the strongest man on earth but Im 6.3, 200lbs and in pretty fair shape I would say. What makes me 6.3 and the meat eater standing in line next to me, 5ft10 and 150L? What makes the basket ball player over 7ft?
Eating meat doesn’t make you strong, no more than taking steroids is going to make you the next Mr Olympia… (nothing wrong with that). Im just saying. People seem to be brainwashed that if they eat meat, workout, and stick their ass with drugs, they will become Mr Olympia.
I recall watching the movie “Pumping Iron” with Arnold, Lou and all the top bodybuilders back then… its a sad story really. There was one guy in that circuit that did “all the right things” ate meat 5 times a day, omelettes with 25 eggs, pumped his body with steroids (all about him him him) – NEVER won a contest.
What do you do with all those hours, all that hard work at THAT level of competition if you don’t win?
I mean, its nice to feel good about yourself with big muscles I guess (me me me) if thats what makes you happy but this guy was on a world level of competition and never won. If it was me, I would be devastated.
Sorry guys but lets face the facts, not everyone will be the top bodybuilder, or fastest runner etc. REGARDLESS of how much meat you eat, how much drugs you take, how many countless hours you spend in the gym. DNA has 90% to do with this.
Veganism is not a “diet” its a lifestyle. One that takes the focus off of me me me all the time.
When I started on my journey, I did so basically on a challenge. I thought, “I can do that” (go without meat for 30 days) piece of cake.
In those 30 days, I changed. I started to really pay attention to whats going on in the world, the animals that are being “bred for food”…
have you seen Tom Cruises War of the Worlds? this movie looks at what it would be like if the tables were turned on humans and some alien race with far superior intelligence, harvested us for “food”.
then I starred to see the impact on the environment, and on our personal health.
I’ve never looked back. Its not like we are giving something up, we are gaining sooo much more.
I thank God, or the “higher Power whatever it may be that I was able to buck the trend for that initial 30 days.
I went against family and friends and all my gym buddies back then who were all about “protein” which they assumed only came from animals.
its so liberating to be able to see things from “this side” I pray that I can inspire even one to look at the benefits.
I wish someone told me many years before.,, but then I was not ready for it back then. When I was young you couldn’t tell me anything lol.
I’m 48 years old. I’ve been off meat for over a decade.. off all animal products for last two years as well. Ive never been lethargic, havent been sick in years, don’t work out very often but I can still push 4 plates (225l). Never been on steroids… haven’t even used protein powder in about 5 years, something I used to do regularly.
Yes humans can likely eat anything. There are people in Guinness book of records that ate nails and glass.
Yes, probably some cavemen watched a carnivore eating another animal.. All they knew back then was monkey see monkey do, so they probably tried the same.
It was likely hard for them to catch an animal and kill it with spears, so they likey picked at carcases left over from the carnivors.
I know if i was a caveman, I would be more inclined to eat things that grew, fruits, berries, root vegetables etc. They say all mankind emanated from Africa, which is a land rich in these foods. those that migrated from there, likely took on the roles of animals that lived in the areas they migrated to.
Does it mean they were right? Of course not. The average life expectancy of early man was under 30 years.
So “can we get by” eating dogs and cats? of course we probably can. Is it ideal for us? Absolutely not.
Today, for the first time in the recorded history of man, we internet to share scientific information. The findings startle many people because its contrary to what most of us were brought up knowing.
Wasn’t that long ago that smoking was looked at as “cool” and it was advertised all over magazines and 50’s tv ads.. “Blow smoke in her face and she will love you forever”. Of course we know today that its bad for us yet people still do it in spite of the facts.
Today, the strongest man in the world is a vegan as well as gold medal olympic athletes, football players, basketball players, boxers… Herschel Walker is a vegan. He was 50 when he took up MMA (mixed martial arts) he runs 8 miles a day does 1000’s of pushups and sit-ups daily!
And millions of “regular folks” like myself, all fairing well without the misery, blood, death, cruelty, co-lateral damage to the planet.
So if we can “survive” on A OR B.. why would anyone knowingly choose the dark side?
I was a meat eater like millions of others and I quit “cold turkey” Im sure if I can do it, anyone can.
P/
So you — just like “the strongest man in the world” — did NOT build your current physique as a vegan…
AND your personal story does not detract from the precautionary tone of this blog post, which starts with the title “Why You Should Think Twice About Vegetarian and Vegan Diets” … with careful reading, you might just make out that is does not say “Why no-one should ever eat a vegan diet”
I am also doing far more than just “surviving” and I am also against disrespect for life.
“did NOT build your current physique as a vegan…”
no this is true but many have been brought up without eating animals or animal products. To them there was no different and today they are alive and well.
There are many today on my facebook feed that were born vegans.
It is as odd to them to see others eating harvested animals as it is for most of us to see the Chinese eating cats and dogs.
I recall going to the wedding of my sister’s friend over 30 years ago. This couple (a drop dead gorgeous couple) already had a child and decided to get married. The baby was maybe 6-9 months old at the time. The couple were vegans before I even knew what the term meant. I was about 18 at the time and asked them, back in those days about deficiencies for the baby but the baby was quite healthy and normal and quiet not crying like many do.
They knew about all this way back then, before internet, before it was “socially acceptable”.
I wish someone would have coached me on it back then!!
But its not a “new thing” There were many before their time… Historic people like;
Plato
Socrates
Albert Einstein
Leo Tolstoy
David Thoreau Henry David Thoreau
Emerson
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Pope
Sir Issac Newton
Pythagoras
Gandhi
Leonardo Da Vinci[14]
Voltaire
Milton
Charles Darwin
Schweitzer
Percy Byssche Shelly
Mary Shelly
George Bernard Shaw
Abraham Lincoln
Confusius
Nikola Tesla
Seneka
to name a few.
Bill Pearl won every major bodybuilding competition there was in the 60-70’s without meat..(he’s a vegetarian, still eats eggs) he did all this before internet. Today hes in his 80s and still trains daily and trains others in Venice CA.
The internet has brought this information worldwide. Do you think the television, which is supported by the restaurant chains and rich people are going to be promoting this? this is why the general public is only now seeing this information. It was just not possible to publically broadcast this even as little as 15 years ago.
Growing up I too used to make fun of vegans and vegetarians… “whats for dinner? grass again?” or “your supposed to smoke the grass not eat it” and the list went on.
Now I am one. Hows that for ironic?
Phil,
I know I’m going to regret this……but what was your source for the list of these famous vegan/vegetarians? Facts are pretty important to me. Someone is pulling a fast one you, Phil.
Also, do you care to explain how you came to this fascinating conclusion that, since you can be healthy as a vegan, anyone can?
I know a mother whose daughter has sensitivities to a wide range of legumes and nuts. Care to offer a meal plan for this girl? Thanks, Phil!
https://vegan.wikia.com/wiki/Famous_Vegans_and_Vegetarians
I’ve seen in stated (on vegetarian sites incidentally) that Albert Einstein was likely only a vegetarian (not a vegan) for the last year of his life. So what?
Listing these famous people as if that adds any weight to your argument, is about as meaningful and convincing to me as the questions around Hitler’s religious beliefs.
It’s great that you have made your own lifestyle choices… please respect others to do the same for their own reasons.
My reasons..? try reading some of my other comments.
How many differing ways can one say:
Vegetarianism Veganism
The two are NOT related in today’s definition. When the term was coined decades ago, it was effectively equivalent. Not today.
Eating vegetarian is not healthy. Period. Dairy and whatever else you decide is allowable is detrimental to your health. Period. It will acidify your body and casein will promote cancer without restraint.
Eating vegan, varied and complete, with whole foods, as raw as possible and your body will alkalize and your health will return provided you exercise moderately, sleep well, remove stress from your life and gets real sunshine.
The rest of the anger in this thread, and the desire to maintain cruelty to animals, is a model for how our society allows for the status quo to continue with lack of personal accountability and continuance of that which would hold no water without current context.
You were doing good but you just had to ruin it with that final snobby, condescending paragraph. And vegans wonder why people have an unfavorable view of them……
My apologies if the raw truth of the matter is unsettling.
Nice thought-terminating cliche. “I’m sorry the truth (my opinion) upsets you so much….” Gotta love that d-bag vegan snark.
Exactly. This is what I cannot stand about the vegans I know as well. I don’t want anything to do with them after a while. I find it insulting to be called a bad person in any way, shape or form – if I eat an animal protein, even to the best of my ethical decision making process. I eat mostly vegetarian with some animal protien here and there, but veganism made me sick. It was not for me. I tried everything with it and I lost my energy over time. But I was treated like a sell-out or a bad person and that just made me mad. I can’t stand vegans now for this reason alone. They always get around to insinuating that the rest of us are barbarians. For what? being part of the food chain? I just also got tired of them going on and on about vegan canine diets as well….